AC Power and Now Battery Issue

[Jean n Steve]

Gremlins again...
Brought the coach back from spring-in-Oklahoma covered storage the other day and had to boost to start the engine. House batteries were at 57%.
Got home and plugged in shore power (15A from garage) but got constant "Waiting for AC power" indicator on the inverter panel. Got the same indication while on generator power.
Went out to start the engine this morning to move her a few feet and I have zero house battery power AND no chassis battery power. Tried jumping the chassis battery from a car but I don't think I'm getting enough amperage to start her. Chassis battery is now on trickle charger.
My first issue is the lack of transfer of AC power. Second issue is the rapid loss of battery power while sitting in the driveway with no load. I have to assume the problems are connected. I haven't started chasing breakers yet.
Any suggestions?

Steve

[BrianGlenn]

Check inverter main breaker and if its turned on.

Second - power to rest of inverted loads (microwave/plugs?)?

Chassis are usually only trickle from charge follower (Xantrex Echo or Magnum if replaced) - those units working normal? ie green light on Echo?

Hit the chassis with a good charge - min 10A if you can.

Power drain could be anything

[Jean n Steve]

Originally Posted by BrianGlenn

Check inverter main breaker and if its turned on.

Second - power to rest of inverted loads (microwave/plugs?)?

Chassis are usually only trickle from charge follower (Xantrex Echo or Magnum if replaced) - those units working normal? ie green light on Echo?

Hit the chassis with a good charge - min 10A if you can.

Power drain could be anything

Thanks, Brian.
Inverter main breaker position made no difference to charge from shore power, which was weird.
The others I will check after I get some power.

Steve

[gpounder]

You need to play detective and have a couple tools to diagnose the problem. A volt meter and DC AMP clamp meter are needed.

Now you need to understand the systems. There are 3 sources of power; alternator, utility power and generator, check each for power present, by noticing an increase in voltage when on, for DC systems, 12.5 volts to 13.8~14.2 approximately. The Generator and the Utility will power your 120 vac items AND power your inverter/charger.

Lets assume all the power sources work, now you need to see if the 12 vdc power charges both chassis and house battery sets. This is easy, again check to see if voltage rises on both battery sets. Even when the engine runs it is supposed to also charge the house batteries.
There are solenoids and chargers that do the connecting between battery systems.

Now there is a reason why batteries go dead. Most coaches have some circuits directly connected to the batteries, examples are smoke detectors, radios, key-less entry, antenna amplifiers and even the main inverter. Some things will not draw any power like a electric step until you open the door. You need to use a clamp tester on the battery line to see whats happening.
I added a battery disconnect switch to the house battery to make sure it is disconnected when in storage. Off is really off now.

[Jean n Steve]

Originally Posted by gpounder

You need to play detective and have a couple tools to diagnose the problem. A volt meter and DC AMP clamp meter are needed.

Now you need to understand the systems. There are 3 sources of power; alternator, utility power and generator, check each for power present, by noticing an increase in voltage when on, for DC systems, 12.5 volts to 13.8~14.2 approximately. The Generator and the Utility will power your 120 vac items AND power your inverter/charger.

Lets assume all the power sources work, now you need to see if the 12 vdc power charges both chassis and house battery sets. This is easy, again check to see if voltage rises on both battery sets. Even when the engine runs it is supposed to also charge the house batteries.
There are solenoids and chargers that do the connecting between battery systems.

Now there is a reason why batteries go dead. Most coaches have some circuits directly connected to the batteries, examples are smoke detectors, radios, key-less entry, antenna amplifiers and even the main inverter. Some things will not draw any power like a electric step until you open the door. You need to use a clamp tester on the battery line to see whats happening.
I added a battery disconnect switch to the house battery to make sure it is disconnected when in storage. Off is really off now.

Thanks man.

I've been charging all three batteries between work hours and avoiding thunderstorms, and the third one should be charged up tonight. Then I'll be able to clean and reconnect everything and start testing. The batteries sat, connected, for three weeks while I was traveling, and it was only when I brought the bus home that I realized I was not ABLE to charge them. Then they went flat. As soon as they're charged and reconnected (or replaced) I'll be able to chase down the charging issues.

I like the idea of a house battery disconnect and I've been looking at installing one of those. I've got a chassis disconnect switch in back.

Hey, I have a question. The echo charger - does it feed both ways to charge either battery bank when th other is full?

[gpounder]

Beware, when a battery goes dead it is seriously damaged if not charged right away. Once you get things all settled you need to test those batteries, There is lots of stuff on line to tell you whats left in the battery but basically a good test is to let the battery sit disconnected for a day and check its voltage.
12.6 V 100%
12.4 V 75%
12.2 V 50%
12.1 V 25%

Regarding the ECHO Charger assuming you have one. It is a one way charger designed to trickle charge (up to 10 amps) your Chassis battery. It only works when the house batteries have a charger on them which raises the voltage. So when your plugged in or running the generator the Chassis battery gets some charge. There is a small green LED on it, solid on and your charging.

[Jean n Steve]

Thanks; I read bout letting the batteries set a day before reconnecting. I'll hook them up after that (I have to clean the terminals/connectors anyway), and check voltages then. Definitely understood about the damage that might have occurred! They're a few years old and I've been looking at AGMs for the house anyway, so...
Roger that on the ECHO charger.
Thanks again.

[Jean n Steve]

OK, today was the day to clean and reconnect the batteries. Each of the three 8Ds had been charged and rested at least 24 hours.

I baking soda'd & watered the batteries, their terminals, and their connectors, flushed them all with clean water, and let them dry. I used a terminal/connector cleaner to expose fresh metal and tightened it all down. The big kitty fired right up and so did the generator. I had 13+ VDC at all battery terminals with both of the motors running and yes - the generator was indeed charging the house batteries, which it would not do previously.

Since she'd sat so long we decided to stretch her legs and drove about 80 miles in a loop to let her get up to operating temp and all. We ran the generator and all three A/C units the whole trip. Everything ran flawlessly.

When we got home I connected up the shore power (15A garage cord) and shut down the genny. I waited back by the transfer switch and surge protector for the "thump" and I got it. Up at the front of the bus the Xantrex panel showed a good float charge coming in from shore power.

I am happy - but stumped. Why did neither generator nor shore power charge the system last week? What changed? The only thing I can think of is that I really cleaned the battery connections quite well. Could a poor connection really stop exterior A/C power from charging the system like that? I have an inquiring mind and it wants to know, so this doesn't happen again!

Any theories?

And THANKS for all the suggestions, guys. You're the best.

Steve

[deandec]

I suspect you have already answered your question....

Have fun on the trail!

[Jean n Steve]

Well thanks, but I just don't have the experience (or confidence, ahem) to KNOW that a "Waiting for A/C" message on the panel could be caused by less-than-optimal connections at the battery. Being an old electronics guy I know that gremlins can come in pairs so I had to ask!

Thanks, brother!

Steve