Another Project, generator start issue

[smlranger]

Thanks for all the suggestions folks. I have decided to keep it simple for me and go with the set up used by Mytime. I plan to install a new cranking battery near the generator and connect it directly to the generator (I will use an inline circuit breaker.....how many amps??). I plan to disconnect the (+) wire coming from the existing house batteries and use that to feed a Trik L Start that I will install to keep the new battery charged.

Mytime spent the big bucks and got an Optima AGM battery. I may just get a good quality flooded cell battery and save a few bucks based on battery weight. I don't want to add a lot of weight to the generator slide. The Optima weights 31 lbs, not sure what a comparable grp 34 flooded cell will weigh. It will be easy to access to check/maintain water level.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by smlranger

Thanks for all the suggestions folks. I have decided to keep it simple for me and go with the set up used by Mytime. I plan to install a new cranking battery near the generator and connect it directly to the generator (I will use an inline circuit breaker.....how many amps??). I plan to disconnect the (+) wire coming from the existing house batteries and use that to feed a Trik L Start that I will install to keep the new battery charged.

Mytime spent the big bucks and got an Optima AGM battery. I may just get a good quality flooded cell battery and save a few bucks based on battery weight. I don't want to add a lot of weight to the generator slide. The Optima weights 31 lbs, not sure what a comparable grp 34 flooded cell will weigh. It will be easy to access to check/maintain water level.

You should look at the original breaker or fuse, back near the batteries, and copy that ones amprage.

Any wet cell starting battery will be fine. Optima batteries are more marketing then performance. There is no capacity in the air spaces between the cells.

[steve11669]

Are you sure the problem is not with the genny causing the slow starting condition? My 2004 CC cranks fast and starts no problem.

If your's is a problem with the battery cable not thick enough, couldn't you keep using it and add an additional cable parallel to the old one in stead of replacing the old one altogether? Then the two cables would be sharing the load.

[lonfu]

Before you go any further, I'd pull your ground connections on your 12v side on both the gen set and the frame. Clean the connections, re-grease with Oxgard or some other electric grease terminal corrosion protector. Make sure you inspect the lugs, look for corrosion where the wire goes into the lug. I assume you have already done the positive side. Occasionally cables get manufactured with out corrosion grease inside the crimps. This means new Lugs. You can test your lines by by passing the cables, sometimes a simple battery jumper cable can do this for you. (depending on the length)

Don't confuse di-electric grease (insulates) with electric grease that is designed for use on electrical connections. ain't cheap!

For example, had a problem with some "buss" fuses on my boat. Pulled each fuse and coated with Oxgard they haven't been a problem since. Be careful about getting it on 2 terminals at once. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[BrianGlenn]

The circuit breaker sizing is to protect the wires. Choose the wire size and length then you can size the breaker from wire max amp tables.

Knowing max amp draw for the starter is a good starting point for wire size. Voltage drop of 3% or 10% is a good rule of thumb. I use 3% to determine wire sizes I install.

Here is a good resource from bluesea- https://www.bluesea.com/resources/1437

Brian

[steve11669]

Are you sure it's not a dragging starter in the gen?

My 2004 CC gen cranks well. Could you add a second cable to parallel the existing one to increase the capacity instead of condeming the original cable? It would cost less than a single larger cable.

[Mr_D]

When I finally got back to Premier in Junction City to get them to look at my auto gen start problem the tech found a broken wire and fixed that. BUT, when he tried to start the gen it barely cranked and wouldn't start even with 12.6 volts. He then made some kind of quick change and now it works fine. Didn't ask what he changed but I guess I should have!

[smlranger]

Mr D if you could check with Premier and see if they remember what they did it would be appreciated.

All I can say is that if I start the coach engine, the genset cranks fine and starts. Butch Williams is considered an expert on CC electrical issues and confirmed wire size was an issue on some models.

As far as suggestions to pull new wire/wires, it would be a massive project.

[funjnt]

Our 2000 Allure cranks really slow. If house batteries are even a little low it won't start, have to usually start the coach and lock the boost switch. Who is Butch Williams and what did they do at Premier Coach? I even put a starter in the thing and it did help but still not great starting. I had posted something on here last summer and didn't know they used undersized wire for the starter. What generator do you have? Ours is the powertech and almost impossible to get to the rear of the box to check the terminals.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by smlranger

Mr D if you could check with Premier and see if they remember what they did it would be appreciated.

All I can say is that if I start the coach engine, the genset cranks fine and starts. Butch Williams is considered an expert on CC electrical issues and confirmed wire size was an issue on some models.

As far as suggestions to pull new wire/wires, it would be a massive project.

Sent Gary a request for the info.

Deen

[CountryFit]

Originally Posted by funjnt

Our 2000 Allure cranks really slow. If house batteries are even a little low it won't start, have to usually start the coach and lock the boost switch. Who is Butch Williams and what did they do at Premier Coach? I even put a starter in the thing and it did help but still not great starting. I had posted something on here last summer and didn't know they used undersized wire for the starter. What generator do you have? Ours is the powertech and almost impossible to get to the rear of the box to check the terminals.

i started it right up a few times with house battery at 12v. same powertech cd8000.
i doubt the wire size being thin, as cc had plenty of talented electricians back then who should have buried the right wires. the most likely scenarios are corroded connectors or poor grounding, bad controllers (demanding higher voltage), and/or fuel/air restrictions on the motor...

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by funjnt

Our 2000 Allure cranks really slow. If house batteries are even a little low it won't start, have to usually start the coach and lock the boost switch. Who is Butch Williams and what did they do at Premier Coach? I even put a starter in the thing and it did help but still not great starting. I had posted something on here last summer and didn't know they used undersized wire for the starter. What generator do you have? Ours is the powertech and almost impossible to get to the rear of the box to check the terminals.

Butch Williams is service manager at Fountain RV in Lakeland, FL. He is a former builder of CC's when they were still in business. I subscribe to tech support provided by Butch and Kevin Waite, another former CC employee.

My genset is the 10KW Onan.

[YC1]

Just a thought, but doesn't the generator have provisions for battery charging? That is, charging of a standalone battery.

Instead of the Trik-L-Start why not use a diode isolator? The Trik-l-Start is actually a bi-directional device. You could use a diode isolator and connect both outputs to the generator battery.

http://www.ase-supply.com/Sure_Power...FdM8gQod89AAUA

The tiny loss across two diodes will be minimal and you will not have any problems filling up the battery.

[CountryFit]

Originally Posted by YC1

Just a thought, but doesn't the generator have provisions for battery charging? That is, charging of a standalone battery.

Instead of the Trik-L-Start why not use a diode isolator? The Trik-l-Start is actually a bi-directional device. You could use a diode isolator and connect both outputs to the generator battery.

Sure Power 952 Battery Isolator

The tiny loss across two diodes will be minimal and you will not have any problems filling up the battery.

i think just a single diode cost less than $10 will do the job. look at #3 post.
i am using a big diode with 250a pass-through on one of my mods, no problem.