Anybody run into this?

[Jupiter]

Originally Posted by B Bob

But we shall all see. I think that Winnebago is really the perfect buyer for Country Coach. There is mutual reasons for the merger.

Hi Bob,
I agree with much of what you've stated. But, I don't agree with your reference to a "merger". It's my understanding that CC was essentially "out-of-business" and Winnebago purchased the CC property and their intellectual rights. I'm thinking that the only thing that may have been mutual was the agreed upon purchase price. Yes, I too think Winnebago was the perfect buyer for this out of production quality brand.

cheers,
Joopy

[Mr_D]

Nope CC was up and running and even produced one rig to show. Their service, support and parts dept were up and running as was their sales dept till it became clear the deal was going through.

[B Bob]

Joppy - What you describe is 2011. The old CC went out of business. Bob and Ron Lee purchased the CC intellectual property, and the Lee's still owned the CC buildings and land. They started up service and parts again. From there the new Country Coach Corp expanded from a small service organization to a big and busy one. We were there several times and can attest to them being very much in business.

Winnebago bought running business. What I heard at the just finished Winnebago rally in Palm Springs was that new coach production for Winnebago models will be underway shortly at the Country Coach plant. Plans are to make a Country Coach model.

But I don't know what the official term for the transaction should be. Merger sounds best for the way I understand the transaction. But the principles in the transaction may have different ideas.

[Rsponsford]

I requested the chassis build sheet about a month ago from Gillig for my 1990 CC Concept and they emailed it to me right away. Did CC have a separate build sheet for the "house" component other than the paper list in the bathroom cabinet?


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[darstar]

Originally Posted by Rsponsford

I requested the chassis build sheet about a month ago from Gillig for my 1990 CC Concept and they emailed it to me right away. Did CC have a separate build sheet for the "house" component other than the paper list in the bathroom cabinet?


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I am surprised , who did you talk with at Gillig? I had a hard time getting proprietary info for my tag axle. Took over two weeks for Gillig to release build drawings to Ridewell so they could build new components. ( the assembly was cracked in many places, we started from the beginning , as Gillig would not work with Ridewell directly)

[mike brez]

Originally Posted by darstar

I am surprised , who did you talk with at Gillig? I had a hard time getting proprietary info for my tag axle. Took over two weeks for Gillig to release build drawings to Ridewell so they could build new components. ( the assembly was cracked in many places, we started from the beginning , as Gillig would not work with Ridewell directly)

Same here. I got mine emailed to me within ten min. Need the last six from the vin.

Bo Vongamath
Technical Service Advisor
Gillig
25800 Clawiter Road
Hayward, CA 94545
Phone: 510-264-5077
Fax: 510-785-1348

[mike brez]

Originally Posted by Rsponsford

I requested the chassis build sheet about a month ago from Gillig for my 1990 CC Concept and they emailed it to me right away. Did CC have a separate build sheet for the "house" component other than the paper list in the bathroom cabinet?


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Yes this is the build sheet I got from CC for mine.

[pumper9x9]

Winnebago bought a number of large buildings and 4 paint booths that a full size class A can be painted in. They will have to start from scratch to build a country coach. The jigs, forms, and the people who built those coaches have been scattered to the winds. What you see come out of Cc/win will a Winnebago with a CC sticker on it.

[Rsponsford]

Originally Posted by darstar

I am surprised , who did you talk with at Gillig? I had a hard time getting proprietary info for my tag axle. Took over two weeks for Gillig to release build drawings to Ridewell so they could build new components. ( the assembly was cracked in many places, we started from the beginning , as Gillig would not work with Ridewell directly)

I spoke with Bo at Gillig via email.


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[darstar]

Originally Posted by pumper9x9

Winnebago bought a number of large buildings and 4 paint booths that a full size class A can be painted in. They will have to start from scratch to build a country coach. The jigs, forms, and the people who built those coaches have been scattered to the winds. What you see come out of Cc/win will a Winnebago with a CC sticker on it.

Could not agree more, my point all along. I spent over a week at the site two years ago. Granted I was not dealing with CC directly when I bought my Concept as that part of the plant was, is ? , under the control of Premier.I had a lot of time to nose around the buildings, discover old stock remains such as wood parts, cloth, doors, insulation , mostly interior items. On the main shop floor there were no less than 20 used CC models in various states of repair and rebuilds.There were several major mods, like adding slide outs , new electronics and paint work. Some of the speciality work was actually being done by independent Contractors who had set up shop within the building. I spent several thousands updating my TVs and sat. System. I took home a fair amount of stock materials, ultra leather , trim , insulation, etc. Many of the buildings were full of coaches, some for sale, most were in storage for owners, some there on consignment. It was an interesting experience.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Rsponsford

I spoke with Bo at Gillig via email.


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Thanks for the contact info from Gillig. I will try the same approach for a build sheet. I do have several Gillig hard cover parts books and owner Manuela. One is not for my model, it addresses the older two cycle motor builds. Not a lot of info however.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by B Bob

darstar - I disagree with several of your comments.

"take over " troubled builders are all subject to the same problems." Country Coach Corporation started up by Ron and Bob Lee in about 2011 was not a troubled builder. They created a successful service and parts organization which we used a number of times. They built one motorhome from scratch. They sold a well run successful operation to another successful company Winnebago.

" I have seen this many times in the Automative world, all the way back to 1954 when Packard merged with Studeabaker . That was ( 1956 ) the end of Americas top Automative brand....and no one expected that at the time." Packard died at their own hands. In 1954-1956 far an away Americas top brand was GM. When Studebaker and Packard combined in 1954 they were both in trouble. Combining two troubled companies usually makes for a larger troubled company, and in this case that happened.

"CC IS DEAD forget about it ever returning. Winnabago builds volume low cost products. If they build a copy cat CC , it will be short lived and will not compare in anyway with a true Country Coach." I was just at a Winnebago rally in Palm Springs and doubt that your statement has any validity. What was said at this meeting was that Winnebago was likely to build a model called Country Coach by Winnebago. But that was it, no details. So I don't think they plan to build a copy cat Country Coach.

Plus I do not agree that Winnebago only builds volume low cost products. What I saw at the rally was a variety of lower cost to mid range RV's. I looked inside a few and think Winnebago does a good job of making things that people want to buy. Their Tour is a very nice mid range motorhome that competes with similar products from Newmar and Tiffin.

Your comment about CC being dead could not be more wrong in my view. CC is very alive and at this time is gearing up to make motorhomes that Winnebago has so many orders for they can't fill the orders. This is a win situation for everyone that is not wallowing in the past.

Newmar and Tiffin both make higher end models than Winnebago, Zepher and King Aire. Plus Fleetwood has had the American Coach line. So the purchase of Country Coach adds the possibility to Winnebago of coming out with a higher end line to compete with those top coaches. Will it be a gussied up Winnebago with a CC label on it? Or will it be a custom Country Coach chassis with the high quality house we have all come to expect from Country Coach? I don't know and I would say that no one knows for certain how things will play out. I would suspect that if the RV market stays good like it has been the last couple of years that there would be room for coaches with a semi-monocoque welded steel Dynamax chassis and high quality house. I would also guess that there will be a cross over model that has a Freightliner chassis and higher end box with some of the usual CC high quality components.

But we shall all see. I think that Winnebago is really the perfect buyer for Country Coach. There is mutual reasons for the merger.

A lot of your rebuttal I do agree with, much has to do with wording.....however , first , I think most owners CCs were built Pryor to 2011. I commend the attempt to service and supply left over parts to the CC owner, and I am sure it was working well, some of the time anyway. Nothing will replace the original Company, we all know that. Personally I think the building of one " new" model was all part of having access to parts and leftover tech. Including the people doing the build. The main objective all along was finding a buyer for the vast property complex, there needed to be more "meat" in the deal than just the land in order to find a buyer, so in that regard Winnabago was a good fit, especially since they were looking for a west coast place to build class A coaches.

Second , my remarks about Packard and Studebaker have always been in debate. Several books have addressed the history, I authored, in part , some of the history. Packard WAS the premier motor car in the United States. Had nothing to do with the size of the company and all to do with the quality of the product. Packard reinterred auto builds ( they build more than cars, towards the end even jet engines ) in 1945 debt free, a very healthy company. Management changes in the late 40s and 50s contributed to the building of a lesser product, little disagreement there. Yes, both P and S were not doing well by 54. However, the merger was cooked books in part, bad negotiations more so, as Packard would have survived without Studeabaker , who was practially broke and needed to merge with a company that had two things going, money , and a long standing history for building quality product. The end of Packard WAS the merger as the product that came out of South Bend was no Packard, just warmed over Lesser cars with a Packard name on the trunk lid.

The bottom line , the last chapter in Country Coach is yet to be written. I guess I see things from a more negative than you do, and in that regard , I hope I am wrong !

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by pumper9x9

Winnebago bought a number of large buildings and 4 paint booths that a full size class A can be painted in. They will have to start from scratch to build a country coach. The jigs, forms, and the people who built those coaches have been scattered to the winds. What you see come out of Cc/win will a Winnebago with a CC sticker on it.

Since Ron and his crew recently built the 45' Allure, would they not have had the jig to make a new Dynomax chassis? Did they build that coach on an old chassis they had laying around somewhere?

When we were there during July 2014, we saw a yard full of fiberglass forms. I even saw the forms for the front and rear caps for our coach. I spoke to a worker in their fiberglass shop and he indicated they were all usuable. IMO, many of the CC's had timeless and classic looks that would still look great compared to competitors.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by darstar

The bottom line , the last chapter in Country Coach is yet to be written. I guess I see things from a more negative than you do, and in that regard , I hope I am wrong !

I hope that don't follow the path that REV has taken with the Monaco brands. A brand like CC needs to be true to its heritage, or it is ruined.