Community Forums

RDJackso · 05-16-2023, 05:37 AM

2000 Country Coach 36' single slide. All set up at Beverly Beach, FL and time to run out the slide. Heard slight clunk when we engaged the pump. Then the noise changed to a high pitched whine seemingly indicating that the motor was running but not the pump. I will get into it when we get home, but wondering out loud if anybody has any insight here. It seems like maybe the pump shaft is broken or become disengaged somehow.

azpete · 05-16-2023, 09:08 AM

if its hwh, loosen one end of a hose on the manifold on the pump. hit extend. if it moves fluid, the pump is. functioning.
you need to check pump pressure.
a clunk where? at the pump, or the room.

RDJackso · 05-17-2023, 04:38 AM

AZ Pete - Thanks for the tip. It is HWH, and the 'clunk' sounded like it came from the pump. I will remove a hose when I return to home base, and rig up a test gauge to determine if the pump is working, but I'm willing to bet it is free wheeling, based on the difference in sound.

Piros1 · 05-23-2023, 07:08 PM

If your HWH pump is the same as I had in my Affinity it is a gear to gear pump. The drive shaft that turns the gears in the pump has a very small pin, if I remember correctly it is 3/32” and about 1/8” in length. I had one disintegrate on my pump and at first inspection I missed the problem. I made my pins out of a drill bit by cutting the Chuck end of the bit and carefully filling it to a precise fit. Takes a little trial error but worked out fine. The pin runs lengthwise in a groove in the shaft and the gear has a slot that slides over the shaft and the pin. Without this pin the gear will spin freely on the shaft.

RDJackso · 05-24-2023, 03:21 AM

Piros1 - Thanks. I have yet to work up the desire to flesh out the issue with my pimp, but I am just about willing to bet that my condition is similar to yours. The pump motor works fine, but it sounds like it is free wheeling to me. I will get into it in the next couple weeks and report back. I have too many projects right now and in retirement, I have perfected to art of taking a 2 hour job and turning it into month long (leisurely) science project...

Piros1 · 05-24-2023, 10:27 PM

I hear what you are saying, I’m retired as well and everything seems to drag on. I think it is due to having so many projects to keep up with.

When you get ready to start on it make sure you take photos from different angles to be sure get all your hoses and wires back in their proper location. You will need to pull the pump and reservoir assembly and disassemble on a bench. It’s the best way and simplest. It really didn’t take all that long to remove and tear down. A couples hours or so. You can remove, tear down check out and make the repairs if it is the same issue as mine and a day or so. Lots of before photos and plenty of shop towels will be your friend. Good luck and I hope this helps.

RDJackso · 05-25-2023, 07:14 AM

Thanks for the encouraging words. I will definitely report back on the repairs.

RDJackso · 05-30-2023, 02:11 PM

So I finally decided to investigate the failure of our living room/galley slide to deploy on our last excursion.
I removed the pump and reservoir from the coach. I just happened to have a plastic pipe plug with an o-ring seal that fit the fill cap perfectly so I didn't have to drain the reservoir.
I removed the diverter section of the pump so that I could gain access to the screws holding the pump into the reservoir. Removing the screws at the base of the pump allowed me to remove the pump section from the reservoir. It took a little pry bar working around the base of the pump leveraged against the reservoir.
The pump appears to be a gear rotor type pump, which means if it is turning it is working.
I couldn't get the plate off of the pump base that covers the gears on the drive shaft portion and the idler. It's about 5/32-3/16 thick. It was loose and would slide around, but I was afraid to force the issue for fear of damaging the pump or what appears to be some sort of brass foil shim between the cover plate and the gear land. Maybe it was just capillary action that was keeping the plate stuck to the pump body, but it wasn't releasing. I was trying to be gentle...

I could not see any sort of round key holding the gear in place on the driveshaft or idler.

The drive from the motor to the pump driveshaft was intact and there were no issues with the way the motor and pump driveshaft were coupled.
I unscrewed the diverter valves and tested each one by applying 12v power to the leads. I could hear the magnets engage, but I couldn't really see if the plunger(s) were working. I would have expected to see some travel but all I got was a slight click and no travel at the outboard end of the plunger(s). Is this a sign?

I verified the power at the coach to the actuator valves and confirmed that there was a full 12v when the selector switch in the coach was depressed.
Put everything back together and reinstalled the pump and reservoir assembly, reconnected all of the various conductors and did a burn test...same exact condition as before. I did notice a difference in the sound of the pump as it picked up fluid, but that was only a brief change.
It sounds like fluid is just circulating in (what I would call) the diverter head (for lack of a better description) portion of the pump assembly.
Next step will be to rig up some sort of a test gauge and check pressures, which I probably should have done to begin with. I was hoping to avoid purchasing a gauge and all of the necessary fittings to rig up a test fixture, but such is life.

Our coach is a 2000 36' Intrigue. I tell people it's systems are relatively simple and easy to work on. But after re-reading this post I guess it depends on what you consider simple. Yeah, if your idea of simple is say, a Boeing 747; then this thing is simple!
I think I'll buy a boat, maybe a trawler for the Great American Loop, as I obviously have too much time on my hands...

Piros1 · 05-31-2023, 12:12 AM

Quote:

by

Quote:

Originally Posted by RDJackso

So I finally decided to investigate the failure of our living room/galley slide to deploy on our last excursion.
I removed the pump and reservoir from the coach. I just happened to have a plastic pipe plug with an o-ring seal that fit the fill cap perfectly so I didn't have to drain the reservoir.
I removed the diverter section of the pump so that I could gain access to the screws holding the pump into the reservoir. Removing the screws at the base of the pump allowed me to remove the pump section from the reservoir. It took a little pry bar working around the base of the pump leveraged against the reservoir.
The pump appears to be a gear rotor type pump, which means if it is turning it is working.
I couldn't get the plate off of the pump base that covers the gears on the drive shaft portion and the idler. It's about 5/32-3/16 thick. It was loose and would slide around, but I was afraid to force the issue for fear of damaging the pump or what appears to be some sort of brass foil shim between the cover plate and the gear land. Maybe it was just capillary action that was keeping the plate stuck to the pump body, but it wasn't releasing. I was trying to be gentle...

I could not see any sort of round key holding the gear in place on the driveshaft or idler.

The drive from the motor to the pump driveshaft was intact and there were no issues with the way the motor and pump driveshaft were coupled.
I unscrewed the diverter valves and tested each one by applying 12v power to the leads. I could hear the magnets engage, but I couldn't really see if the plunger(s) were working. I would have expected to see some travel but all I got was a slight click and no travel at the outboard end of the plunger(s). Is this a sign?

I verified the power at the coach to the actuator valves and confirmed that there was a full 12v when the selector switch in the coach was depressed.
Put everything back together and reinstalled the pump and reservoir assembly, reconnected all of the various conductors and did a burn test...same exact condition as before. I did notice a difference in the sound of the pump as it picked up fluid, but that was only a brief change.
It sounds like fluid is just circulating in (what I would call) the diverter head (for lack of a better description) portion of the pump assembly.
Next step will be to rig up some sort of a test gauge and check pressures, which I probably should have done to begin with. I was hoping to avoid purchasing a gauge and all of the necessary fittings to rig up a test fixture, but such is life.

Our coach is a 2000 36' Intrigue. I tell people it's systems are relatively simple and easy to work on. But after re-reading this post I guess it depends on what you consider simple. Yeah, if your idea of simple is say, a Boeing 747; then this thing is simple!
I think I'll buy a boat, maybe a trawler for the Great American Loop, as I obviously have too much time on my hands...

The small pins I was referring to are on the shaft the gear slides onto inside of the pump not on the motor side of the shaft. The only way to tell is to open the pump other than a pressure test on the pump manifold.
What failed to ask you was do you have more than one hydraulic slides? If you do and they are working then it isn’t the pump but could be one of the solenoids that control your slide. There two per slide.

RDJackso · 05-31-2023, 05:04 AM

Piros1-I disassembled the pump head by removing the 10 allen head capscrews and separated it from the base.

The driveshaft was exposed along with the shaft for the idler gear. There were 2 alignment pins that properly index the pieces. That is when I encountered the 5/32-3/16" plate that covers the gears, that I could not remove. It slides around on the base of the pump a bit, but I was afraid to manhandle the thing for fear of damaging something that I couldn't see.

Any clue on how to separate these two pieces would be wonderful.

I bench tested both solenoid actuator valves (I just have the one slide) and could hear them click, but didn't see any travel at the end where I would imagine the plunger would move out if they were working properly.

I don't know if the fluid changes direction internally in the valve, or externally in the pump head by way of the plunger extending into the body. I am working blind here as I can't really locate anything on the web regarding the proper function of the valves, and I am also unable to locate an exploded view of the pump internals.

I would rather not invest in a test gauge if I can help it as I have no intention of becoming a HWH service/repair shop. I have enough junk of my own, I sure as heck don't want to get involved in somebody else's misfortune...

RDJackso · 05-31-2023, 05:06 AM

Note that the alignment pins have no proximity to the gear set, they are located on the outer edge of the pump assembly.

Smitty77 · 05-31-2023, 08:04 AM

Could have missed this in the thread

! Have you removed the solenoids, and reinstalled them? The solenoids come in different flavors depending upon the year, but some have a screw/knob on the top of them, and loosening and tightening them can release debris that can be clogging the fluid from the pump into the hose(s). And again different years of the slides have different gear at slides itself, but the ram pistons that can also have a problem at that end. If you have access, disconnecting one of the hoses and and having the Slide button pushed, can also validate if you have good flow (Into a catch bucket.).

HWH, will usually take a few days to get back with you in non emergency situations - and provide good phone tech support...

Admire your 'Can Do Hand's On Approach'! Hope it turns out to be something simple

!

Smitty

RDJackso · 05-31-2023, 09:34 AM

Smitty77 - My solenoid valves are the screw in type. I have tried the relief screw trick and both of my slide hydraulic rams were rebuilt a year or so ago after the forward ram developed a leaking seal.

After the rebuilding the cylinders, the slide worked fine until now.

I am leaning toward the stripped key-way on the gear shaft, but I can't figure out how to separate the thin plate that covers the gearset to see what's going on.

I'm going to remove the pump/reservoir assembly and have another look.

RDJackso · 05-31-2023, 11:56 AM

I was able to get the backing plate off the pump and inspect the gearset key-ways.

Tuns out it was capillary action bonding the two halves together with hydraulic fluid as the bonding medium.

But alas, physics is no match for determination and with a small drift punch and a light tap with a small ball peen hammer the cover plate submitted and I was able to physically remove both the drive gear and the idler.

Both gears were secured to their respective shafts via retaining rings and cotter keys. Both keys were intact and undamaged and the retaining rings were in their proper positions.

As stated in an earlier post, this is a gear rotor pump. if it is turning, it is pumping. Accordingly, the pump has now been eliminated as a suspected failure.

I am now going to focus on the solenoid valves, and dream about that boat. Because I still don't have enough to do...