Stop Engine Brake from Turning on Brake Lights

[NowGo]

Originally Posted by palehorse89

Glad to read the relay being pulled and things work like you want. Sure do wish mine would be that simple!!!

I second that thought.

Spent a few hours on line again yesterday trying to determine where things might be located on my Anthem. They sure don’t make this an easy one. I reviewed the doument about “BrakeSwitch” from an earlier post. It states that the purple wire coning off the engine brake switch is the wire that supplies power to the coach tail lights. If that is “early” enough in the circuit maybe cutting that wire, then putting a switch in would deal with both the coach and brake controller (or toad)?

Over the next few days I may open the switch panel (again) to see if I have that purple wire and if it’s labelled

[palehorse89]

Originally Posted by NowGo

I second that thought.

Spent a few hours on line again yesterday trying to determine where things might be located on my Anthem. They sure don’t make this an easy one. I reviewed the doument about “BrakeSwitch” from an earlier post. It states that the purple wire coning off the engine brake switch is the wire that supplies power to the coach tail lights. If that is “early” enough in the circuit maybe cutting that wire, then putting a switch in would deal with both the coach and brake controller (or toad)?

Over the next few days I may open the switch panel (again) to see if I have that purple wire and if it’s labelled

That sure would be nice and easy just taking the purple wire off the brake switch! Not sure if you caught it but I put a wiring schematic file on here , click "Files" then "Electrical" and you will see Spartan K2 Electrical to download. I have looked it over for day's now and I think Bon is also looking at it. Hoping for a easy fix like he had!
Those print's had ought to be really close to what we have as things don't change much from year to year from Spartan. Take a look at them and maybe they will help.
I am going to pull my brake switch today and take a look see also......
I am not seeing a purple wire on the switch on page 76......

[palehorse89]

Just pulled side panel, Black, Red, and gray wire's on the switch confirmed, no Purple wire

[BonS]

Here's a markup of the Spartan K2 chassis modification using a relay, It certainly isn't hard if you can find the wire to cut (SP1081A).

Notes:
1) Be sure the cut wire is immediately after the SCM and before the splice SP1081A.
2) When coach is off, contact is closed so OEM operation of brake lights and hazards.
3) Use 20, or 30, or 40 amp relay.
4) Use 1N4001, or better, diodes.
5) Assuming that the hazard switch only turns on 12V then a 2nd relay is needed to restore hazard operation while coach is on. After the 1st relay is installed then the hazard relay install is super easy and operation is automatic.
6) Adding the optional manual OEM switch you restore total OOM functionality when the coach is on.

[BonS]

NowGo, There isn't a need for an additional flyback diode in this design.

[Tugboat]

Understand that you unit is built on a commercial truck platform and some DMV require that the brake lights come on when anything engine brake, transmission brake, Jake brake or foot brake is used to slow the vehicle. So contact your frame/engine maker they will be able to make a software change as your RV is not a commercial vehicle.

[BonS]

Originally Posted by Tugboat

Understand that you unit is built on a commercial truck platform and some DMV require that the brake lights come on when anything engine brake, transmission brake, Jake brake or foot brake is used to slow the vehicle. So contact your frame/engine maker they will be able to make a software change as your RV is not a commercial vehicle.

In some cases the OEM may be able and willing. In other cases, such as CC and Spartan their wiring doesn't lend itself to that separation. Personally, I wouldn't want to not see the engine brake light on my dash because it was turned off in the ECM. In the case of Spartan there is only ONE output wire that originates the engine, service and trailer brake signal. The circuits being discussed here minimize the side effects and give the coach owner some flexibility of system operation. Some feedback from CC owners indicates that CC didn't even tie the engine and service brake lights together until sometime since year 2000.

[NowGo]

Originally Posted by BonS

Here's a markup of the Spartan K2 chassis modification using a relay, It certainly isn't hard if you can find the wire to cut (SP1081A).

Notes:
1) Be sure the cut wire is immediately after the SCM and before the splice SP1081A.
2) When coach is off, contact is closed so OEM operation of brake lights and hazards.
3) Use 20, or 30, or 40 amp relay.
4) Use 1N4001, or better, diodes.
5) Assuming that the hazard switch only turns on 12V then a 2nd relay is needed to restore hazard operation while coach is on. After the 1st relay is installed then the hazard relay install is super easy and operation is automatic.
6) Adding the optional manual OEM switch you restore total OOM functionality when the coach is on.


Attachment 370383

Thanks for this BonS.

I won't be able to get at this for a few days, but I will pursue it. I must confess I am a little nervous but I will take it slow.

Identifying the wires at the correct location in the circuit may be a challenge.

[BonS]

NowGo, perhaps you could PM palehorse89 and share notes. He's making progress and has located the cut location for SP1081A, without much trouble, and has selected some parts from Amazon to continue the modification.

[NowGo]

Originally Posted by BonS

NowGo, perhaps you could PM palehorse89 and share notes. He's making progress and has located the cut location for SP1081A, without much trouble, and has selected some parts from Amazon to continue the modification.

Excellent idea BonS.

I am tied up for a couple of days but I will definitely send a PM to Palehorse89, maybe this evening if I can get to it.

I sure do appreciate everyone’s help

[NowGo]

Originally Posted by BonS

NowGo, There isn't a need for an additional flyback diode in this design.

Thanks for the clarification BonS. I have reached out to palehorse89 regarding the actual cut location of 1081A.

On the hazard light matter, you mentioned the hazard light issue had a simple solution. I had spoken with Spartan about whether the hazards lights would stop flashing and go to steady on with application of the service brakes. Spartan replied that it depended on how the coach manufacturer wired the coach.

Then I tested it. I have 3 pairs of rear stop/signal lights. The top two flash with the hazards, but when you step on the service brake the top two stop flashing and all 6 lights.

That will be the next task for me after I get the engine brake / stop light issue resolved

[BonS]

There is not any hazards reference wiring in the Spartan K2 schematic that I have. Hopefully you can find something. Please keep me informed about what you find.

[DrMarkR]

In to see the final solution.....


Our 03 Magna is used to pull a 26' stacker with race cars. I had never even considered what the heck I'm doing to my trailer brakes on long descents!?!



In addition, it never occurred to me that flashers on those long steep descents were not visible.


Like the OP, I want both.



MR

[BonS]

DrMarkR -

I presume that you're trailer brakes are activated by your brake lights? If no then how your brakes are working on a descent are dependent upon the activation means, such as surge brakes or electric brakes, built into your trailer. If yes, then the electrical connections that connects your engine brake to your service brakes may be of interest to you. This is your first thing to verify. If you have electric brakes and your engine brake activates your brake lights then there may be a relatively simple modification to suit your needs.

Hazard lights are a separate issue and are again determined by the builder. Hazard lights may override brake lights and sometimes not. So far, in this discussion, we haven't examined a wiring diagram for the hazards lights from CC, Spartan or any builder. But hopefully we will.