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Old 06-21-2019, 03:39 PM   #1
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Tired of talking about tires? last call! Michelin XZE or....

My new to me 06 intrigue has a tire size of 12R/22.5, H rating. Currently I have the original TOYOs M111Z tires on all 8 wheels, and they still look new with no cracking, etc. That model is no longer made. I plan to replace all 8 next week.

The FMCA discount gives me these choices for that size of a tire (12R 22.5)

Michelin:

XDN2
XZE
X Works Z
XDS

Continental

HSR2
Cont cross trac HA3
HDR2

I can also purchase Toyos, model numbers M143 or M144. I don't know anything about the Toyos or the Continentals.

I am pretty sure that I had Michelin XZEs on my 2006 Dutch Star that stayed like new and no problems for 9 plus years, so I am leaning towards that one (also a shop in Sioux Falls has the tires, 2018, knockoffs, for a total out the door price of $4800 for all 8.)

If I "KISS", I will go with the XZEs, however I am always open to other opinions, and a soft quiet ride, coupled with value and reliability, is very important to me!
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:15 PM   #2
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I shifted from XZE*'s 12R's from the first 6 1/2 years with our coach. To XZA2's in 295/80 size. (So minor on MPH at 60MPH, I did not have the speedometer changed to that size. I find my GPS MPH serves me well, I know that 60MPH on the dash speedometer, is somewhere between 62-63MPH.)

Same load rating's between these tires.

As you probably know, the XZE*'s were developed for school bus application, with about 5-8 pounds of more materials on the 'beefier' sidewalls. To be ready for curb side brushing over the years. I did find them to be a very robust tire, and I attribute their robustness from saving us from a probable blowout from a hard edge, and deep, pot hole on I99 that could not be avoided. Broke a cord in the outside dual, and ruptured/slipped a cord on the tag behind it. So I always felt they gave us a safety edge from the rough roads, and more adventurous places we've been known to have taken the rig. (Abused them quite a bit in 2014, on our Alaska trip!).

But I wanted two things with the next set of tires: 1) Lower rolling resistance, for a chance at tad better MPG; 2) A bit more cushioning of the front seats, from the steers going over rougher roadways...

The XZA2's have delivered both those for us. So far, 18 months or so, very pleased with them.

That being said, I also liked the BF Goodrich ST230's, Hankook AH12 (Now I think 37(?), Continental makes a good tire, and on my passenger cars we've had very good support out of Yokohama's, and they do have a 22" tire. Finally, Bridgestone has updated from their R268 trucker's tire, with a new set of tires for higher MPG capability.

I believe the Hankooks would be the lowest price, along with the mentioned Toyo's that many CC owner's have had good luck with too...

So there you go... Lots of choices.

If wanting to save some funds, I could see XZA2's or XZE's on the steers, and Hankook's or Toyo's on the Rear and Tag position.

Best of luck to you on this choice. You know Michelin's, and they served you, as they did me, well - so that might be the deciding swing vote as you read input from other's, and make a final decision!
Smitty
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:18 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efstewart View Post
My new to me 06 intrigue has a tire size of 12R/22.5, H rating. Currently I have the original TOYOs M111Z tires on all 8 wheels, and they still look new with no cracking, etc. That model is no longer made. I plan to replace all 8 next week.

The FMCA discount gives me these choices for that size of a tire (12R 22.5)

Michelin:

XDN2
XZE
X Works Z
XDS

Continental

HSR2
Cont cross trac HA3
HDR2

I can also purchase Toyos, model numbers M143 or M144. I don't know anything about the Toyos or the Continentals.

I am pretty sure that I had Michelin XZEs on my 2006 Dutch Star that stayed like new and no problems for 9 plus years, so I am leaning towards that one (also a shop in Sioux Falls has the tires, 2018, knockoffs, for a total out the door price of $4800 for all 8.)

If I "KISS", I will go with the XZEs, however I am always open to other opinions, and a soft quiet ride, coupled with value and reliability, is very important to me!
I tried Michelins after 8 years on my OEM Toyos on our 2003 Intrigue 42ft. After 5 years the Michelins were cracking badly. Went back to Toyos at the appropriate size and have 3 years of excellent service and ride from them, and I saved a lot of $$$ in the process. Safe travels.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:29 PM   #4
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I refuse to pay the $$$ for Michelin or Goodyear especially with the sidewall cracking and zipper blowouts.
I have seven years on my Samsons that look like new. When time comes to replace I will look at the and Hankooks that I had great luck with.
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Old 06-21-2019, 04:32 PM   #5
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I really do want that softer ride up front, but it seems that the 295 size is not good for my heavier Intrigue. I had 305/22.5 on my lighter weight Dutch Star, and it served me well. I will have to talk to the tire shop again, as he did not seem to know about the Xza2s!
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Old 06-21-2019, 05:31 PM   #6
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I'm not a tire professional. But I find that with the exception of two Tire Managers at two different TCI store locations - I've researched enough about the tires for my coach to know as much, and sometimes more, then most store managers or salesman.

On CC's specifically different year coaches of the same models can have differences in clearance, and on the duals, spacing. So what works for one, may not work for the other.

As I had narrowed down to the 295/80 shift from the 12R's (Pick a front steer axle weight to use, and consult the Tire PSI chart for XZE and XZA2's - you will find them to be very close on most weights, and that the 295/80's, I believe, can actually carry a bit more then the 12R's. Load Range rating is more important when determine weight capacities. And of course, the tires must fit. Suspect you have 8.25" rims, as you have 12R's now. You may have enough clearance on the steers to go to 315/80's, and then you'll find that they're derated due to the 8.25" rims vs the 9" rim. So that means higher PSI from the derating. And higher PSI, makes for a more harsh ride, especially on the steers.

I'd be very surprised if you had any problems 'fitting' 295/80 XZA2's safely on your coach. And with the appropriate load range, they should have more then adequate weight carrying capability for your coach.

And while again I'm not a tire professional, I do recommend you 'cross check' your self on the Tire Manufactures weight to psi chart, any information a tire dealers sales person and or manger gives you. (They're some very knowledgeable people in some stores. In others, not so much. And always remember, that different stores get a higher profit margin off of different makes of tires. Les Schwab tires, sales more Toyo's on the West Coast - then any other dealer. I bet that if 10 people call asking what tires LS would recommend for a RV, they would get the answer Toyo at least 7 out of those 10 times. It's simple, they're a higher volume dealer for Toyo truck tires, so they get lower price points then their competitors. They don't pass those savings onto the customer, they pocket it as profit via higher Profit Margin's. And not picking on LS, they're in business to make money. But I know from personal experience with LS in Junction City, they were more interested in profit, then what I as a customer was asking for in a tire.).

Do work with our professional, and then 'cross check and validate' the info they give you. IMO, tires are if not the most important safety item on a coach - they're for sure one of the top three!!!

As FYI, I've cut & pasted my coaches actual four corners weight (Which I recommend everyone get.). Fully loaded, fuel, water, and ready to go travel wise. It's an or 40' 2 slide, High Cascade model, with tags. I do have 5 solar panels, and did swap out the X'2 8D house batteries, with X's4 L16's, so have a bit more weight then stock. Use this a 'Hmmmmm' reference info only, as my weights - will typically not apply to other's weights!!! Did I mention getting four corner weights for determining proper PSI settings!

Best to you, and all,
Smitty

L Front - 5800
R Front - 6100
(Combined) - 11,900
(Weight to be used for Axle Weight) - 12,200

L Rear Drive - 7800
R Rear Drive - 8250
(Combined) - 16,050
(Weight to be used for Axle) (Note: Drive often called Duals.) - 16,500

L Tag - 3800
R Tag - 4200
(Combined) - 8000
(Weight to be used for Axle Weight ) - 8400


Total Weight - 35,950

Toad Weight - 3475

Combined Weight - 39,425
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Old 06-21-2019, 06:33 PM   #7
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I went with the Continental Coach HA3 315 R 22.5. The shop said they are the same as 12R's. I see no problems with fit. I'm on a trip now and the ride is softer than the Toyo M111Z. So far they seem like a good tire choice. Price through FMCA was great.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:00 PM   #8
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I bought my steer tires from FMCA Michelin program and did not check prices. A year later I got two tag tires through FMCA Michelin program and local TCI dealer. After I got the tires I felt they were too expensive. Checked two local shops without FMCA. Less money not using FMCA.

My local repair shot, not a tire shop. Asked me to let them check tire prices. They got me four drive tires - Goodyear for less money than any of the local tire places. And the tires were made in the USA and less than a month old.

My point. Check prices before you buy and do not take for granted that tire discount programs are the best deal.

I have had on my current coach which we have owned for almost eleven years, Michelin, Goodyear, Firestone, and Dunlop. All of these tires were made in the USA. None of these had any problems at all.
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Old 06-22-2019, 08:06 AM   #9
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Thanks for all of the input!

I have also noticed a wide range of prices for the same tires, and some of them beat the FMCA program. I am thinking about putting the XZA2s on the front steer, if I can find them next week, and then the Mich XZEs knockoffs (available now in Sioux Falls) on the other six wheels.

I am just not sure what size would be best for the intrigue R12 22.5 wheels. It seems that most agree that the 295 80s would fit and within the right load range. Thanks Smitty for your research on that subject.

I will talk to a few more shops today and Monday, to see if they have any XZA2s in stock.

My path back home will lead me through Sioux Falls on WB Hwy 90, then south toward North Platte Nebraska via Hwy 183, and then eventually onto WB 76 to Denver and finally to SB Hwy 25. I have seen a few shops along the way that I can call.
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:49 AM   #10
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Tire pressure

So I plan to replace my old tires on the 40' 06 Intrigue, with Michelin XZEs (got a great price on some nearly new takeoffs) tomorrow. My tire size is 12R/22.5.

I plan to weigh each axle and I am fairly certain that the front axle weight will come in a lot less than the GAWR rating of 14,200 for the front axle.

I am guessing that the real weight will be close to about 6500 for each front wheel, for a total of 13000. With that weight, and my size tire, Michelin recommends a tire pressure of about 105.

But I read in the 2006 owner's manual, page 1:18, that "Now, the Major tire manufacturers recommend that medium duty truck tires be maintained at the pressure that corresponds to the Gross Axle Weight Rating for the axle to which they are mounted."

For my Coach that would be 120 PSI.

I say, no way, as I know that it would result in a stiff ride and probably crack my windshield on rough terrain. That happened to me twice on my Dutch Star when I inflated the tires to the max, and then I adjusted it to actual Michelin weight guidelines, and no more rough rides or cracked windshields.

I think that the manual is wrong about that. What say you?
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Old 06-23-2019, 09:57 AM   #11
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I purchased my 2015 Itasca in 2017. It had sat for awhile while the widow tried to sell it after the death of her husband. The Mitchelin tires were dated 2013. Even tho they looked great I decided to replace them this year. I wanted to go with Mitchelin but found a set of Yokohama’s for a lot less $$$. The tire guy said Yokohama has a better sidewall than Mitchelin, a longer warranty, ride just as smooth and cost less. So far I can’t tell the difference in ride quality and smoothness.
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Old 06-23-2019, 10:22 AM   #12
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You probably already know this, but tire PSI is one of the key safety items on RV'ing, well, safely!

Go over the scale and get your full axle weight. Go over it again with one side off the scale, and one side as close to the middle of the scale as possible. Subtract that single size axle from the full axle, and that yields your 'Left & Right' axle weights. USE THE HIGHEST AXLE WEIGHT, when accessing your Tire Manufactures Weight to PSI info. (For example, my highest front axle weight, is 6100 lbs - so I used that to access the Weight PSI chart. Which form my XZA2's, was 90PSI.)

If possible, getting an actual Four Corner Weight is preferred, but the straddling the rollover scale works better then just going with the Full Axle weight, because you can see with my numbers a 300 lbs difference between them. Some coaches will be more, and some coaches will be less of a difference. But going with the Highest Axle weight of a full axle, is the way to go. And ALWAYS keep the PSI the same on an Full Axle.

I also personally do two other things:
1) When accessing the Weight to PSI Chart, if my weight is within 20-25% of the top of the weight range, I bump up to the next higher Weight Line on the PSI chart, and use that PSI as the base.
2) I also add a 10% contingency on top of the recommended PSI value. To cover 'weight creep' while traveling (Amazing what we end up 'must buying', or must pick up, and stash somewhere in the coach!!). And it also allows for some PSI lossage while traveling, and still remaining above the recommended PSI settings. (I usually actual add PSI may twice a year while traveling, and frankly I only do so because I can - I've never come down close to the recommended PSI value while traveling, but will top it off back up to my 10% higher rating at times. For example, we did a 15,800K season of traveling in 2014, about 8 months, 11K miles or so into the trip, I topped back up the PSI... even though they were still all above the recommended PSI.)

And, I'm like KISS, so I round up to the highest '0' or '5' after adding the 10% contingency. (My 6100 lbs 90PSI, + 10% contingency of 9 PSI, was 99PSU. So I run with 100PSI in our Steers.

------

Again, having had your Dutch Star you probably know this, or do your own thing that you feel is safe for you. I share this, because search on tires and PSI could yield this thread, and new comer's to RV'ing may read this and they at least have an opinion about how to go about determine the lowest possible SAFE PSI, for a more comfortable ride... Or at least enough to nudge them into doing their own research. And note, 100PSI, is quite a bit lower then 120PSI!

Ongoing best to you, and all,
Smitty
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