Wheel slop. Driver fatigue

[f360racer]

Smitty77,

“And gee, I'm rambling again...
Smitty” please continue to ramble on this forum to your hearts content. I have learned so much from your very elaborated posts so far. You among many are the posts I look forward to the most. They are very informative, backed by experience and expertise and very much appreciated for you taking the time to post. Thank you

[roberto]

Agree with all the info on this steering issue. Smitty, keep up the rambling. We all are learning. Merry Christmas to all!

[CountryFit]

Yep, Smitty's rambling is music to my ears .
Merry Christmas to all!!

[Popsf15]

Late to the game, but thought I would add my input to the topic. I too have a 2007 CC Magna 42' with steering and handling issues. My old coach was a 2003 Monaco Sig. so I use the Roadmaster chassis as a comparison to my Dynomax chassis. The handling characteristics of my CC was on the verge of scary. The ride is fine but any large curves or mountain driving was white knuckle and stressful. The coach would lean excessively and in the lean it was as if the steering geometry would change and require additional steering inputs. Compared to the Roadmaster, with 10 outward mounted airbags, it always feels like the Dynomax chassis is trying to manage a balancing act with marginal success.

After a lot of forum research, I decided to install the HWH Active Air system on my coach(COVID Relief money I didn't need or want). I felt this upgrade was the only hope of improving the handling on my coach. Before I did the upgrade I had all of the airbags and shocks replaced. Not that I thought it would change the handling, and it didn't, I just wanted a clean slat to eliminate any other possible issues before the install. I had active air installed in Oct of last year. On the way home to Tampa the system had a failure and I had to turn the system off. Never really got a longer term test of the system before the failure occurred. Words can't begin to describe my frustration. Well 6 months later we just completed the repair in Moscow Iowa, turns out the failure of a $5.00 check valve locked up the air fill port on the right front airbag. I am now happy to report the system works as advertised. Currently sitting in Escanaba Michigan as I type, we are heading across the UP and then down thru MI. I have been staying off of the interstates and testing on the secondary roads. No real mountain driving but a lot of sweeping curves in rolling terrain. I am happy to share that Active Air has successfully tamed the beast and I can comfortably handle the curves and slopes. I can even maintain the posted speeds in and out of the curves.


The system didn't solve my steering play but now it is only an issue on the straight hwy. In the curves, steering input is steady and predictable, unlike in the past where the steering wheel input was constantly changing into, out of, and throughout the turn. The airbag manipulation as you enter the curves is very noticeable while driving. My wife can now relax even in the curves.

My Conclusion: If you are contemplating the Active Air System, make sure you are doing it for the right reasons. If you have a Dynomax chassis (with what I consider an inferior air bag configuration/stability) than the upgrade can improve your coach and ease driving effort. If your coach handles poorly on the curves(leans excessively) than you can expect varying degrees of improvement based on your particular chassis. If you are looking for a better ride or steering control than look elsewhere. The money spent can only be balanced by the white knuckle experience and your desire to keep your current coach for a few years of driving satisfaction.

Sorry for the length of my post, I just wanted to add my experience with my CC. Still looking for a solution on the straight away (excessive steering play) One problem at a time. I will continue to monitor the forums for a solution, it always comes.

Pops

[Griffin379]

Popsf15, Have you ever taken your coach to Josam's in Orlando. I took mine there in 2019. They improved the slop in my 2000 Magna to the point it was a pleasure to drive. No death grip on the steering wheel. I went back in early 2021 to check and adjust the suspension and alignment. Money well spent.

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by Griffin379

Popsf15, Have you ever taken your coach to Josam's in Orlando. I took mine there in 2019. They improved the slop in my 2000 Magna to the point it was a pleasure to drive. No death grip on the steering wheel. I went back in early 2021 to check and adjust the suspension and alignment. Money well spent.

Josam's has a great reputation. And glad they made improvements on your 2000 Magna.

The 'slant nose', 2005 + Affinity/Magna's, have different geometry and connectivity from the steering wheel all the way down and out to the steering axles.

I sincerely believe Kaiser Brake & Alignment, as well as Henderon's Line-up, Colton Trucks and Josam's - are some of the best chassis knowledgeable shops in the business.

Kaiser did $10K+ work on our new to us 07 Magna 45' (A good part of that, was me having all the air bags replaced at the same time.). And the combo of bushings/links/alignment - did improve my On Center slack. Henderson's was able to adapt a mounting bracket to add a Safety-T-Plus on the coach, and that also seems to have helped On Center reaction. (Key word was help, it did not eliminate it.).

And the mentioned 'corner lean' of the Magna, is as unsettling to my wife, and myself, enough for us to have Active Air in our budget. (Nope, have not called to make an appointment. And understand it's out quite aways now!). It was good to read another successful post on the results of Active Air on these era coaches!

My point of responding to you, was to make sure the differences in these two different era's chassis was recognized by owner's of 'slant nosed' Magna/Affinity coaches... Very valid input, that an experienced chassis shop like the ones above, and others, can make a real difference on handling improvements from either warn parts replacement, bad alignments, etc. I'll add that going to more robust shocks, ones that dampen on the downstroke of the shocks piston, can also make a dramatic improvement. As well as I found the use of Source Engineerings Comfort Control Valves (Air Check) on our Allure, helped it 'set' faster in S curve like roads.

Best to all,
Smitty

[Bill Webb]

Following on the steering issue . We just purchased a 2005 45 ft Magna and made our first 2000 mile venture. I love driving this coach. Our Intrigue drove excellent but I have to say this one is amazing. We had to fix a few minor things but the coach came with Active Air , new tires, with Centranic wheel balancers. I wish I could tell you before and after on the Active Air but I think it definitely works. And Smitty keep posting !

[jwlce]

Just add the Acme Solve-It-All component!

So there it is said.

Just a foot note, I has about 70k mikes on my coach and took it to be aligned which requires road height adjustment. A respected rv suspension company did it but were unfamiliar with the road height adjustment procedure faked their way through it. I presented them with the CC document the following day and they indicated that they did not have the time to do it over again and that it would require re alignment. Long story the owner made it right by paying for a company in Elgin IL to redo ride height and alignment which helped greatly, but still wasn't quite right. I had all the rear shocks replaced ( drive and tag axles ) which took almost all the remaining steering play out of the coach, to the surprise of the shop and myself. So the gist of story is tat all steering issues are not in the front.

[tinman 55]

Hope you've had a chance to get your steering issues sorted out. If not, try Colton truck and RV. I purchased my 37 foot Allure in January and was not impressed with the ride and, steering issues which quite frankly, wore me out trying to constantly correct the steering while driving. Also, had a bad bottoming out issue in the front that I thought might be the crappy California highways I was driving on.
Took the coach to Colton truck and they readjusted the ride height which was off on the passenger rear side, removed the sway bar to inspect for cracked mounts and replaced the bushings while at it. They did find the front adjustable Koni shocks were not adjusted right. After re-adjusting them to the firmest settings, adjusting the height and the new bushing it rides, drives, and steers like a Cadillac.
When I picked up my coach after repair, I was speaking to the mechanic who did my repairs who had another Country Coach come in with steering issues the day before that actually had the front shocks installed upside down.

[RCattell]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

Well now that we've finally broke over 1K (1130) miles of seat time driving our 07 Magna, wanted to update and share some thoughts. This was a run over 4 days from Oregon down to AZ. Interstate 5 North of Redding and thru many parts of Oregon - was one sort of highway driving. Twists, and hills and relatively good road conditions. Sacramento and South on 5, had many areas that we'd see little Fiats in the bottom of pot holes, and other nasty road conditions. We elected to jump over I99 North of Fresno, which had some better road conditions between the towns. Then 58 > 40 > 95, which is a mix of other kinds of rod conditions. We had some good shifting winds, on the stretch from Bakersfield towards Needles, which allowed me to assess the handling shifting wind conditions.... (OK, that provides the setup of the types of traveling for the large part of this 1K + run.)

Some reminders on my earlier threads, as more setup info to factor:
> 07 Magna 45 ISX600 with 40K when we bought it earlier this year
> Had Kaiser Brakes and Alignment in Eugene go thru the chassis. New air bags all around; Their Drag/Driver Link Kit instal; Repaired some warn components on the rear end (Extra wear, as it looks like a heavier stacker trailer was used by the 1st owner for about 31K miles, and Carry at Eugene suspects the trailers brakes were not properly set/balanced to do their share, so more weight and stress and wear transferred to the rear of the coaches suspension.); New Koni FSD's for the Tag's, and the 2 1/2" Diameter Road Kings for the Steers and Drives all were in good shape. Full alignment after the suspension work.
> When I first test drove the coach before purchase, short little drive, it had over 1/2" of Slack/Play in the steering wheel, when 'On Center' going straight down a highway.
> After the work at Kaiser, this improved to be 3/8-4/8" Slack/Play, certainly better, but still not as crisp as I'd have liked.

As we were leaving Oregon, we seen half a day at Henderson's Line-up in Grants Pass (Like Kaiser, a well known and respected outfit.). Even though Safety-T-Plus does not show a dampener for our 2005+ Magna/Affinity chassis's, they were able to use a kit from a pre 2005 Magna/Affinity for my coach.

My goal on adding the Safety-T-Plus, was two fold:
1) Obviously to help provide more stability in an emergency situation. Front tier blow out. Or accidentally or being forced, to drop a wheel off of the shoulder of the highway at speed.
2) I was hoping the dampener would help while going down the highway 'On Center', contain/reduce the Steer wheels/tires from following groves and or crowns - which would then require correction by me via the steering wheel.

So the results:
> Safety-T-Plus dampener did not help to further reduce the 3/8-4/8" Play/Slack. (Did not expect it to.)
> The Safety-T-Plus did seem to me (Realizing I had less then 400 miles experience with this coach on highway traveling before leaving Oregon heading South.) - to help on the On Center tracking of the coach on straight sections of various highway conditions (Slight crown, heavy crown, heavy truck ruts, grooved freeways.)
> Like any 'shock' like device, the unit seemed to me to be a bit 'stiffer' when we first left Henderson's. So when I went to turn the Steering wheel, at any speed, I'd feel more 'positive' resistance in the steering wheel. (The power steering does all of the work, but IMO, it certainly felt different then when I drove the coach into Henderson's that AM, to have the Safety-T-Plus dampener installed.). Over the course of the few days travel South, this resistance/stiffer feel of the steering wheel, seemed less pronounce (And certainly could have just been because I became used to it. But I belief the dampener/shock loosened up a bit.)
> I also 'think' that the soft shifting winds, did not require a much steering wheel correction, as the dampener seemed to reduce their impact.

I feel the number one reason I wanted the Safety-T-Plus installed for emergency situations, was worth the costs of the install.

I feel the bonus of less 'drift', and thus less need for steering wheel input correction, while On Center highway driving - did accomplish the result of 'less fatigue potential' for longer days of driving.

===

Next steps? We we're going to go run this coach as is in 2021 for awhile, and et some more miles on it, and continue learning it....

I'll make two decisions sometimes during 2021:
1) Do I want to find a company that 'rebuilds/blue prints' Sheppard M110 steering boxes, and see if that helps reduce the 3/8-4/8" play. (Frankly, I think I do. We plan to keep and use the Magna over the next 10 years or so. And I find this one trait, not an improvement over how we had or suspension set up on our 04 Allure 40' with ISL. I keep reflecting back (COVER YOUR EYE'S CC LOVERS!), to a test drive in a 45' Essex with Comfort Steer (TRW's)... I like, and have done this with our previous two coaches, to set up the suspension for good handling. Both a safety thing for me, as well as just the comfort of long distance driving.
2) Make a decision on investing another $10-11K for HWH Active Air. I find the leaning sensation of the Magna is much more pronounce then our Allure. Yes it's both a heavier coach, and taller weight too. But it has larger air bags, so the lean in turns is more then I expected. Active Air would reduce this, and add another level of comfort while driving (The Dear Wife really hates the sensation of the learn, especially looking over the drop off on mountain road driving!). But more importantly, would add a substantial edge in safety during emergency handling situations... Amortized over 10 or so years of usage, that investment will pay back dividends in usage.

OK, that's my opinion. And I'll update this thread ahead if we do anything else, and or as more time goes by of 'seat time' behind the wheel - I come up with other opinions.

I truly thought while test driving, and my bad for not doing more due diligence investigating, that the Slack/Play in the steering would be correctable... Disappointed that it is not. Is it enough in the overall scheme of things to not like the Magna? No, too many other things set the 07 Magna apart from many, many other coaches.

Sorry for the long winded update, it's my nature, and best to all,
Smitty

Smitty,

Do you happen to have the kit number available for the Safe T Plus they put on your coach?

I have set up an appointment next month with Safe T Plus to get one installed and I wanted to converse with them before I get there about your install.

Thanks,

Richard

[Smitty77]

Originally Posted by RCattell

Smitty,

Do you happen to have the kit number available for the Safe T Plus they put on your coach?

I have set up an appointment next month with Safe T Plus to get one installed and I wanted to converse with them before I get there about your install.

Thanks,

Richard

Hi Richard - 41-230 Blue Safety T Plus and C-180K3.5 Bracket (Which I believe they had to adapt, but did not watch so not sure if that was anything too fancy. Or, it could have been they just had to fool around a bit, to determine which bracket would work best for the application. Safety-T-Plus did not have this coach shown as covered bu their product, at least at that time!)) My Service Advisor was Brice, and Matt R was the Tech.

Like the added insurance on if a front blowout, or front wheel drops of the side of the pavement, that the Safety-T-Plus is on the coach...

And again I feel it helps reduce the tendency to wander, on non crowned or grooved road surfaces.

Best,
Smitty

[rvmaybe]

Jim E:

We also have a 2007 affinity. I replaced the front shocks with Road Kings which helped the front end bobbing. I would like to replace the rear shocks but have not been able to find part numbers for new shocks. Can you share the part numbers you used?

Thanks.

[RCattell]

Smitty,

Thank you for the info.

I gave it to Safe T Plus and asked them to call Hendersons Line up.

[a250gpguy]

Bookmarked...

Great thread...We just took delivery of our coach (05 Magna) and drove LV to OKC.

A freaking dream on flat smooth roads with a large on center vagueness/slop described in detail farther up this thread.

In a Jekyll and Hyde scenario this coach, in high winds, crowned or rough roads is like wrestling a bear. Driveable but just I'm amazed at how much it weaves and oscillates in suboptimal conditions and my first thought is the caster and toe is out of whack..

On my list is alignment, shocks, those trick airbag valves and possibly a blue printed box/TRW conversion and a safe t plus or similar system to help bring this beastie back in line.

Does anyone know what steering box Entegra are using. Those coaches also are IFS and have a similar front profile

Ch