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01-19-2013, 07:35 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Fairview TX
Posts: 2,453
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TAMPA RV SHOW...a Few Thoughts....
I went through the exhibits last Wednesday and, while I always enjoy going through the new offerings, came away just a little bit wanting in terms of what's out there. First, I couldn't wait to see another Cornerstone since it is the top of Entegra's lineup. While nice, I just couldn't bring myself to "wanting" one, compared to the TS Select/Select Limited offerings of the years 2007/08. Still love my Alante with the real leather and excellently finished woods.
But in fairness, I feel ALL MH mfrs. have degraded their "quality" feel after those years, which may have been the the apex of recent times. Sure, there are those inevitable new technologies, bells and whistles-AND that wonderful K-3 chassis, but I just couldn't "love" the finishing touches of most of the coaches I went through, the Cornerstone included. I guess inflation IS alive and well, although the mfrs. try to do a good job disguising the realities of this.
After the Cornerstone, I thought more highly of the A-Bus, while no Zephyr was on display, which was disappointing. I really wanted to compare the CS with the "Z". The Newmars, as usual, came out very high for quality, but ever higher in terms of pricing. Those accountants must have very strong control over the marketing guys. Winnebago continues to innovate with their new floorplan ideas, while the others try to follow. Gee, I found myself even thinking the American Coach offerings had moved up in my relative estimation, something I never thought I'd see!
Now here's a no-brainer. I came away from the Show thinking my fav. was the FOUR-slide Prevost Millennium! $1.9 mil! But after computing the monthly payments just one more time, realized that none of us will ever be in position to afford a new one of those!
Finally, I thought the most enjoyable exhibit was that of the Tin Can Tourists, a vintage RV camper group which restores old units from the 50's and 60's. For us of that era, it was an enlightening walk-through, even including a lady wearing a "Lucy" type of dress and hair-do!
P.S. Don't get me wrong...I still think Entegra offers as much as the other guys, considering the various pricing points. While the old TS offered more value than others, in MY opinion, today's offerings seem to be based on the old adage "you get what you pay for". No obvious "steals" out there these days, methinks.
__________________
Slabman
2019 Newmar Ventana 3717
2007 Lexus LX470 Toad
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01-19-2013, 08:06 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Posts: 1,319
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Slabman,
My take-away from what you've said is that you're a man still happy with the decision and coach you bought 4 or so years ago. ... and that is a good thing!
Travel safe and often.
Tom
__________________
Tom, Regina, Max the Bernedoodle, and Molly the Goldendoodle
2017 Aspire 44B
2013 Anthem 44DLQ sold
2012 Honda CRV, Blue Ox Avail, AF1
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01-19-2013, 09:19 AM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 5,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slabman
I went through the exhibits last Wednesday and, while I always enjoy going through the new offerings, came away just a little bit wanting in terms of what's out there. First, I couldn't wait to see another Cornerstone since it is the top of Entegra's lineup. While nice, I just couldn't bring myself to "wanting" one, compared to the TS Select/Select Limited offerings of the years 2007/08. Still love my Alante with the real leather and excellently finished woods.
But in fairness, I feel ALL MH mfrs. have degraded their "quality" feel after those years, which may have been the the apex of recent times. Sure, there are those inevitable new technologies, bells and whistles-AND that wonderful K-3 chassis, but I just couldn't "love" the finishing touches of most of the coaches I went through, the Cornerstone included. I guess inflation IS alive and well, although the mfrs. try to do a good job disguising the realities of this.
After the Cornerstone, I thought more highly of the A-Bus, while no Zephyr was on display, which was disappointing. I really wanted to compare the CS with the "Z". The Newmars, as usual, came out very high for quality, but ever higher in terms of pricing. Those accountants must have very strong control over the marketing guys. Winnebago continues to innovate with their new floorplan ideas, while the others try to follow. Gee, I found myself even thinking the American Coach offerings had moved up in my relative estimation, something I never thought I'd see!
Now here's a no-brainer. I came away from the Show thinking my fav. was the FOUR-slide Prevost Millennium! $1.9 mil! But after computing the monthly payments just one more time, realized that none of us will ever be in position to afford a new one of those!
Finally, I thought the most enjoyable exhibit was that of the Tin Can Tourists, a vintage RV camper group which restores old units from the 50's and 60's. For us of that era, it was an enlightening walk-through, even including a lady wearing a "Lucy" type of dress and hair-do!
P.S. Don't get me wrong...I still think Entegra offers as much as the other guys, considering the various pricing points. While the old TS offered more value than others, in MY opinion, today's offerings seem to be based on the old adage "you get what you pay for". No obvious "steals" out there these days, methinks.
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The Allegro Bus has a good following. Tiffin always has good floorplans and lots of storage and some real down-home thinking when it comes to useability. However, what's beneath the skin doesn't compare to Entegra. Insulation, quality of construction, etc are all much better in the Entegra. The Zephyr really is no better, just has the bigger K2 chassis and price tag that doesn't compete very well with the Cornerstone.
Newmar is unique. They don't plan on cranking out 14-16 coaches a day so marketing isn't their main concern. Quality of construction is on par with Entegra so it's very good. They have lots of floor plans. They build them one at a time and lay out their walls, etc from blueprints and don't use jigs. That gives them the flexibility to make custom mods and changes (within reason) as per the customer's requests. The result is that they build a good coach and can customize it as desired. Their method of construction does take more time, although quality doesn't suffer, and that drives up the price. If you want custom stuff, Newmar is great and you'll get a well built coach but they are more expensive, which is why their sales volume is lower.
Winnebago leads in floorplans and innovative ideas. I'd put their quality in the Tiffin league, not Entegra or Newmar.
American Coach runs a tight ship and everything is done per a schedule and with the latest technology. They have some good ideas and some not so good. The fit and finish is great and the tolerances are tight due to less hand work. They have come up in those areas but my concern is that the bean counters might start cutting costs in areas that will affect the overall product. Their initial switch from Spartan to Freightliner tends to support that and would preclude me from buying an American Coach at this time.
Those are just my observations. It's interesting to see how the RV industry develops after those tough times and it'll be more interesting tosee where iot winds up down the road. I have yet to see any one manufacturer with every single duck in a row. There's always something. The secret is to find the one with the least of them and also the one's that don't mean that much to you.
__________________
Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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01-19-2013, 05:02 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,688
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Just finished my seven miles today.
First there was a Zephyr there. Too much money for not much more. Tiffen moving forward with floor plans, but...
Newmar was there in force with King Aires and Dutch Stars and a few MountainAires and one Essex. KingAire just doesn't show me $750K. Didn't see much in the way of new floor plans. That said, the full wall slide, while an engineering nightmare, does give a seriously larger feel.
But then you go into a Prevost (by appointment only) and they get that same spacious, use every square inch of space in their coach that all the others don't. Not sure I can justify the difference between $.5M and 2.1M.
Entegras still show well, but they were off in the corner. All the senior people that were at the dinner were at the show, except Bontrager and Momma Jayco.
The owner's suggestion session was good. My sense is they are moving in a direction towards increased interaction with the owners. Tadd Jenkins indicated they are working a users web access on the Entegra site for interaction with them, and things like the "You Tube" videos. BY THE WAY...there are now 72 videos, Tadd said they added them about 1.5 weeks ago.
To those thinking about which way to go, all the coaches look nice. Many good floor plans. Just do your research on quality and service. This week for me, with the interaction with the Entegra team, has sold me on my view that DW and I made the right decision ... for us.
And my feet hurt after seven miles
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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01-19-2013, 05:13 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Queen Creek, AZ
Posts: 1,319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417
Just finished my seven miles today.
First there was a Zephyr there. Too much money for not much more. Tiffen moving forward with floor plans, but...
Newmar was there in force with King Aires and Dutch Stars and a few MountainAires and one Essex. KingAire just doesn't show me $750K. Didn't see much in the way of new floor plans. That said, the full wall slide, while an engineering nightmare, does give a seriously larger feel.
But then you go into a Prevost (by appointment only) and they get that same spacious, use every square inch of space in their coach that all the others don't. Not sure I can justify the difference between $.5M and 2.1M.
Entegras still show well, but they were off in the corner. All the senior people that were at the dinner were at the show, except Bontrager and Momma Jayco.
The owner's suggestion session was good. My sense is they are moving in a direction towards increased interaction with the owners. Tadd Jenkins indicated they are working a users web access on the Entegra site for interaction with them, and things like the "You Tube" videos. BY THE WAY...there are now 72 videos, Tadd said they added them about 1.5 weeks ago.
To those thinking about which way to go, all the coaches look nice. Many good floor plans. Just do your research on quality and service. This week for me, with the interaction with the Entegra team, has sold me on my view that DW and I made the right decision ... for us.
And my feet hurt after seven miles
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Dave, only about half those videos are available unless I'm in the wrong place.
YouTube
__________________
Tom, Regina, Max the Bernedoodle, and Molly the Goldendoodle
2017 Aspire 44B
2013 Anthem 44DLQ sold
2012 Honda CRV, Blue Ox Avail, AF1
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01-19-2013, 05:22 PM
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#6
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Community Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 53,426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSL417
Just finished my seven miles today.
First there was a Zephyr there. Too much money for not much more. Tiffen moving forward with floor plans, but...
Newmar was there in force with King Aires and Dutch Stars and a few MountainAires and one Essex. KingAire just doesn't show me $750K. Didn't see much in the way of new floor plans. That said, the full wall slide, while an engineering nightmare, does give a seriously larger feel.
But then you go into a Prevost (by appointment only) and they get that same spacious, use every square inch of space in their coach that all the others don't. Not sure I can justify the difference between $.5M and 2.1M.
Entegras still show well, but they were off in the corner. All the senior people that were at the dinner were at the show, except Bontrager and Momma Jayco.
The owner's suggestion session was good. My sense is they are moving in a direction towards increased interaction with the owners. Tadd Jenkins indicated they are working a users web access on the Entegra site for interaction with them, and things like the "You Tube" videos. BY THE WAY...there are now 72 videos, Tadd said they added them about 1.5 weeks ago.
To those thinking about which way to go, all the coaches look nice. Many good floor plans. Just do your research on quality and service. This week for me, with the interaction with the Entegra team, has sold me on my view that DW and I made the right decision ... for us.
And my feet hurt after seven miles
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Did you see the Foretravel ? My DW and I really liked it. Not comparing it to any other , just on its own.
Cliff
__________________
Cliff,Tallulah and Buddy ( 1999-2012 )
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01-19-2013, 05:26 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Hollywood Beach, FL & New Braunfels, TX
Posts: 863
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Tampa RV Show
Id like to add my 2 cents worth to the thread.
Despite the weather, the turn out on Thursday was good. I was very impressed with the overall organization of the event as it was my first time to actually cruise the whole thing. (and if you were one of those people I snuck up behind on my Segway, my apologies.)
I have to agree that the vintage RV's and cars on display were unique and the owners took time to answer what seemed like a million questions.
The only disappointment I had with the event resulted in a decision by the local Thor dealership in regard to the Outlaw toy hauler model. According to the Thor representative, and the local advertising and event map, there were adequate models of two new floor plans sent to Lazydays to be included it the show. Instead, Lazydays sold the units before the show, used the space for Newmar, and told myself and at least three others that Newmar makes a better product (and I'm not trying to be argumentative), and "that decision was already made before the show started".
I find it exceedingly short sighted of Lazydays to keep something out of the show in favor of another manufacturer no matter who they are.
Other than that, the show was great, displays were educational, and boy were there deals to be made.
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01-19-2013, 05:35 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Thor Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 761
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we visited the show Friday and really like the thor challenger, the floor plan was unique and would suit fulltiming,
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01-19-2013, 05:35 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrzryd
Dave, only about half those videos are available unless I'm in the wrong place.
YouTube
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Tadd said all 72 up as of two weeks ago. Haven't checked myself.
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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01-19-2013, 05:36 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifftall
Did you see the Foretravel ? My DW and I really liked it. Not comparing it to any other , just on its own.
Cliff
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Yes..but it seems a lot of money for what I saw...JMHO
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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01-19-2013, 05:40 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BpK9Miami
Id like to add my 2 cents worth to the thread.
Despite the weather, the turn out on Thursday was good. I was very impressed with the overall organization of the event as it was my first time to actually cruise the whole thing. (and if you were one of those people I snuck up behind on my Segway, my apologies.)
I have to agree that the vintage RV's and cars on display were unique and the owners took time to answer what seemed like a million questions.
The only disappointment I had with the event resulted in a decision by the local Thor dealership in regard to the Outlaw toy hauler model. According to the Thor representative, and the local advertising and event map, there were adequate models of two new floor plans sent to Lazydays to be included it the show. Instead, Lazydays sold the units before the show, used the space for Newmar, and told myself and at least three others that Newmar makes a better product (and I'm not trying to be argumentative), and "that decision was already made before the show started".
I find it exceedingly short sighted of Lazydays to keep something out of the show in favor of another manufacturer no matter who they are.
Other than that, the show was great, displays were educational, and boy were there deals to be made.
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Perhaps mistaken, but Newmars were being shown by another North Trail RV or something like that. But LD was huge across the show "floor" so maybe I missed them.
On the other hand, yes, if you are looking for one of the few Class A toy haulers, that's a shame.
I hadn't seen the conversion of the toyhauler decks to a raised patio. Saw that on a number of fivers and thought that was unique and an interesting way of maximizing what you have!
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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01-19-2013, 05:44 PM
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#12
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Community Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 53,426
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I've been at LD for three weeks and haven't seen a Newmar.
Cliff
__________________
Cliff,Tallulah and Buddy ( 1999-2012 )
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01-19-2013, 05:47 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Entegra Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,688
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clifftall
I've been at LD for three weeks and haven't seen a Newmar.
Cliff
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You're not per chance teaching the internet course there are you?
__________________
Dave and Beth
2015 Cornerstone 45J
2020 Ford F-150 Lariat
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01-19-2013, 05:51 PM
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#14
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Community Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 53,426
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No just a camper. But I can use the course. However , I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Cliff
__________________
Cliff,Tallulah and Buddy ( 1999-2012 )
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