110 volt interior wiring problems

[Winemaker2]

Originally Posted by Socaltoolguy

I was told about a "patio GFI" but was not able to locate it. The only a.c. outlets I have found outside are not GFI. The one behind the reefer is not GFI.

For an outlet to GFCI protected it does not have to have it's own GFCI receptacle. The first receptacle in a string has GFCI and protects additional ones wired (correctly) to it.
If you turn off all power and pull the GFCI receptacle out you should be able to determine which others are tied to it by doing a continuity test using a long test wire and a VOM meter.
Once you determine which receptacles are tied together you can start to troubleshoot to see if the fridge is tripping the GFCI in the feed. Dont just turn the fridge off be sure to unplug it... reset the feed GFCI then plug in the fridge.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

I've been assuming the 2004 LaPalma/Vacationer were diesel. After "Solo RV Guy" posted I looked at the brochure. I was incorrect. The diesel versions did not appear until 2006. It appears as if 2006 was also the last year for the gas LaPalmas/Vacationers.

So, the 2004s have more in common with the other gas coaches than the diesels.

I usually am better at catching these details. Sorry!

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

I've been assuming the 2004 LaPalma/Vacationer were diesel. After "Solo RV Guy" posted I looked at the brochure. I was incorrect. The diesel versions did not appear until 2006. It appears as if 2006 was also the last year for the gas LaPalmas/Vacationers.

So, the 2004s have more in common with the other gas coaches than the diesels.

I usually am better at catching these details. Sorry!

I also thought it was a diesel until I looked at the brochure.

[Jim_HiTek]

Originally Posted by Skip426

Jim; I didn't realize that about you!

It's true!

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For the OP - FYI: As mentioned patio outlets can be fed with a CGFI inside the RV. The outlets are daisy chained off one CGFI at the beginning (usually) of the electrical string. Both my patio outlets were protected by interior CGFIs.

The 130 watt inverter, if you have it, would be very close to the TV, Satellite receiver, and auto dish deployment system if you have one. Reason for it is because if you have a power outage, it can take 5 minutes for the big game to come back on once power is back. The entertainment inverter keeps the game on, and protects the equipment. Very handy in my experience.

[Socaltoolguy]

Originally Posted by THenne1713

I agree w/ Skip, but suggest you unplug or disconnect the 120vac to the refrig, and then see if the GFCI will now Test/ Reset? If so, (you didn't say which brand/ Model Refrig?), if a LPG/ ACV unit, then also check the electric Heater for grounding, which can happen when they blow/ short? You can then troubleshoot the refrig grounding issue using ohmmeter?

I tried doing just that. Our reefer is Norcold top freezer w/icemaker. It is not one of the recalled units. The GFI will not reset. I even replaced it with a new one thinking it might have been defective. No go. I have power to the breaker panel but not sure the line to the bathroom is getting power from the breaker. The microwave works so I know that the power is coming in from that breaker.

[Socaltoolguy]

Originally Posted by YC1

Show us a picture of your coverter. https://www.google.com/search?source...4dUDCAk&uact=5

Many styles and brands of inverter/converters

What I have is an IntelliPower 9100, Progressive Dynamics power converter.I also have the Intellitec 50 amp Smart Energy Management System and breaker panel.

[Socaltoolguy]

Update....Today I checked out the breakers and they are all ok. I was pretty sure they would be but I had hoped I'd find one lazy one. Anyway, after checking all the outlets in the extreme rear of the coach in the bedroom/sitting room area, I had power to all of them. So, I tore into the tv cabinet that had been upgraded to a flat screen. Once I got everything out of my way, I found a bad outlet. It had gotten wet at some time and the screws and all the wire holders were rusted and burned. I'm going to try to replace it with a residential type of outlet & box if possible. So, from there I went into the commode room. There is one dual outlet in there too. I have juice there but I'm not sure it's coming out and going forward in the chain. But, the strange thing is, when I test it, the power is on the white wire, not the black. I checked the wires behind the tv and they are black/hot, white/common. Bye the way, just to test, I wirenutted the wires behind the tv to see if I could get juice downstream. I now have juice to the GFI but it still won't reset. I do have a green light on it now though. I'm making headway. The reefer still won't operate off the coach 110 but if I run a cord directly to it, it runs. Since I'm no electrician, I'm now at a loss as to what to do next. Why does my hot change from black to white. What could possibly cause that? There doesn't seem to be anything between the tv outlet and the commode outlet. Can anybody advise me on this? Please. I do seem to have juice now at all the outlets in the coach including the one behind the reefer. I took it apart and made sure of all the connection inside of it. They are slipshod at best. Why not use screw connectors? I know, cost. I'm eventually going to replace them all if I can find some low profile boxes for the walls. Anyway, that's where I'm at now so if any of you more learned folks want to chime in, believe me, I'm all EARS.

[Jim_HiTek]

Oh, sure, 120 vac on the white instead of the black? Yeah, I've seen that in a corroded outlet box where there was so much rust and nasty corrosion that the terminals fell out of the plastic outlet and were just dangling. Eventually, vibration or something caused the white to short to hot.

I had something similar to what you're seeing and when I narrowed it down to a certain string from one place to another, that's when I discovered that the repeated shorts in the bad patio outlet had caused a Junction box to go bad. In many RVs junction boxes have IDCs (Insulation displacement connectors) where they jamb 3 big heavy Romex cables into one box and smash the wires onto those IDCs. In my case, the repeated shorts at the patio outlet (intermittent...sometimes wouldn't show up until it rained) eventually overheated one of the IDCs and it eventually permanently open circuited one of the branches.

Because it was inside a wall, and there was no way I was going to rip out that wall, I had to come up with a bypass to get around the open. It is fixable, you just may need to get creative.

[Socaltoolguy]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

Oh, sure, 120 vac on the white instead of the black? Yeah, I've seen that in a corroded outlet box where there was so much rust and nasty corrosion that the terminals fell out of the plastic outlet and were just dangling. Eventually, vibration or something caused the white to short to hot.

I had something similar to what you're seeing and when I narrowed it down to a certain string from one place to another, that's when I discovered that the repeated shorts in the bad patio outlet had caused a Junction box to go bad. In many RVs junction boxes have IDCs (Insulation displacement connectors) where they jamb 3 big heavy Romex cables into one box and smash the wires onto those IDCs. In my case, the repeated shorts at the patio outlet (intermittent...sometimes wouldn't show up until it rained) eventually overheated one of the IDCs and it eventually permanently open circuited one of the branches.

Because it was inside a wall, and there was no way I was going to rip out that wall, I had to come up with a bypass to get around the open. It is fixable, you just may need to get creative.

When/if there is a junction box inside of a wall, how do you know? How did you find yours? The wire run that I'm chasing right now runs from behind the tv cabinet in the bedroom going forward to the commode room, a total of about 6 feet and totally behind a closet/drawers. No other powered things there. In order to just test what I was doing, I twisted/wire nutted the wires together behind the tv just to see if it changed anything. They were the ones that had corroded and arced badly. Anyway, I stripped them and sanded them before wirenutting them together. I did the ground also. From that point, I now have power to the GFI in the bathroom but it will not reset. The green light is now on, that's something new. Also, now I have power in all of the forward outlets. In the commode room, there is that dual outlet, it has wires coming in from (I think behind the tv) and then going back out forward. I'm thinking maybe they go to the outlet box behind the reefer. It's at that point in the commode room That the hot wire turns white rather than black. I have no idea where it comes from. I may not be coming directly from the tv box and might even be coming over from the GFI in the bathroom. If that's the case, the wire would have to exit the tv box, cross over the ceiling and down the wall to the bathroom vanity. And then it would have to run back up and over to the commode room. Makes no sense but they do things wacky in the RV industry. If I could just get the GFI to reset and stay locked in, I think I could figure out the rest. Any ideas?

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by Socaltoolguy

If I could just get the GFI to reset and stay locked in, I think I could figure out the rest. Any ideas?

Any chance it's wired backwards? As in, Line conductors on Load lugs and vice-versa?

[Jim_HiTek]

How did I figure out it was in the wall? Logic. I had two strings. They both left the in the wall bathroom CGFI. One string I measured with the bad string disconnected. That was the bedroom string. The other string was the bathroom of course, the hallway on the passenger side, the patio outlet, and so on. The open had to be in the wall in that particular RV. And that told me that it was likely in the junction box where the two strings split...a Y with the CGFI in the bathroom feeding it. I was convinced it was likely under the cabinetry in the bedroom but I wasn't going to dig around in there ripping out woodwork and the like.

This was a Bounder RV and obtaining a schematic that made any sense was not in the cards...so I had to use logic and tested things as best I could. Much like you're doing.

Some things, if you've not already done it, you can pull out drawers and look behind and under them. Then, the closets often have thin wooden floors held down with a few screws through the carpet. Find those screws, remove and pull up that floor. You might find your junction box under it.

[Socaltoolguy]

Originally Posted by KanzKran

Any chance it's wired backwards? As in, Line conductors on Load lugs and vice-versa?

How would I know? Everything worked for 16 years. When I replaced the GFI I wired it the same as the old one. I suppose I could have gotten the wires reversed. Not the black/white but getting the input on the output side. I'll check that tomorrow. Thanks

[Socaltoolguy]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

How did I figure out it was in the wall? Logic. I had two strings. They both left the in the wall bathroom CGFI. One string I measured with the bad string disconnected. That was the bedroom string. The other string was the bathroom of course, the hallway on the passenger side, the patio outlet, and so on. The open had to be in the wall in that particular RV. And that told me that it was likely in the junction box where the two strings split...a Y with the CGFI in the bathroom feeding it. I was convinced it was likely under the cabinetry in the bedroom but I wasn't going to dig around in there ripping out woodwork and the like.

This was a Bounder RV and obtaining a schematic that made any sense was not in the cards...so I had to use logic and tested things as best I could. Much like you're doing.

Some things, if you've not already done it, you can pull out drawers and look behind and under them. Then, the closets often have thin wooden floors held down with a few screws through the carpet. Find those screws, remove and pull up that floor. You might find your junction box under it.

Thanks, I will do some more searching.

[windsorbill]

Often in a residential application, if the GFI doesn't reset, it's wired wrong. Double check it.