120V receptacles not working

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by vacationer04

I have been out this morning and here is what I have found:
When on shore power or GEN the BR, Converter and WH are dead.
If 120V is supplied to the converter outlet with a separate wire in place of a plug all 3 work as normal, (meaning I am putting 120V in instead of out).
But if I get in the breaker panel and switch off the front roof A/C breaker all of them go dead at once.
I checked all of the breakers when on shore and the WH and converter are not showing any voltage unless the roof A/C breaker is also on. I also have two outlets in my slide that are powered with the others.
I do not have a basement GFCI that I can find. I only have two outlets and one is the converter and the other is on the other side where the outdoor entertainment would be if equipped.
If I plug in the 50A shore while I have the other power source engaged in the outlet that seems dead it immediately affects the circuit it is plugged into in my garage. If the WH and converter are on separate breakers and circuits, how does the secondary power I have supplied fix both?
My front roof A/C has not been working for awhile but when the extra power source is engaged there is some cool air coming from the vents, even though the fan is not blowing, only like the compressor is powered up. I have even disconnected the AC Romex from the A/C. I do not see how that A/C breaker can affect the WH and converter. When the A/C breaker is off all of that half of the breaker panel dies with it. All of the breakers test do positive for continuity.
I am afraid to take it for service for fear of needing to mortgage my house to pay for "diagnostic time". As long as I can keep the batteries charged I'll keep my options going awhile longer.
My EMS board also is flashing when the GEN runs like it has a code stored.

Lets go back to the statement above. Do you mean the converter is plugged into a 120vac duplex outlet and you are supplying 120vac INTO that outlet by running a separate 120 line into that outlet by backfeed (the other half of the duplex outlet)?

AND, the converter, bedroom, and water heater work when you supply the backfeed?

AND, if you turn off the roof A/C breaker (in the distribution box), the converter, bedroom, and water heater go dead?

If any of this is not the case, please rephrase.

[vacationer04]

If mine ever had an inverter it must have been removed in the past along with the additional batteries needed for it to function. There is no evidence I can see where more batteries were ever installed. The sales literature listed it as optional. Maybe because mine came with the W/D it wasn't included.

[bluepill]

1. If it had an inverter, it would never be used to power a converter, a W Heater, or an A/C.

2. Question: What size is the breaker for the problem circuit?

I ask because a converter and an A/C would usually have 20 amp dedicated breakers, and the WH a 15. It is VERY unlikely that those 3 would ever be on the same circuit. It seems to me that some circuit failure has ended up chaining those circuits together by cross-feed or back-feed, and possibly failed from the overload.

Be very careful when testing and investigating. You may have reversed hot-neutral, bootleg ground, Hot Skin, or other problems that can zap you.

Good link on wiring problems here:

http://ecmweb.com/contractor/failure...esting-exposed

[vacationer04]

That is what is frustrating me. How can 3 breakers be affected by one of them? The main breaker straddles the two panels that the breakers are hung onto. But the side that controls the WH, converter and front roof A/C is virtually dead until I back feed the converter receptacle. It shows at most 3 volts when probed with a meter.

[twinboat]

Just a guess, but did you check the buss bar that the whites are in. Make sure every screw is tight.

[bruceisla]

I think post #5 is most likely ... one leg of 50 amp is not making it to the main panel.

BTW, if you are checking for tightness in the panel, back off each screw 1/2 turn before retightening. This will ensure the screw is not seized and just feels tight.

[vacationer04]

I will check that tomorrow. I hope I don't have to investigate inside the ATS, as it is plastic and riveted together in such a way as to not be able to access the contacts, to check or refinish them.

[vacationer04]

In response to Bruceisla, post #15. Yes that is exactly the scenario I am working with. The one leg theory makes sense so I will look into that next since neither shore or GEN make a difference.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

I think post #5 is most likely ... one leg of 50 amp is not making it to the main panel.

Vacationer04
I agree that one missing leg of the 50A power is most likely the cause of your problem.
The fault could be in the campground pedestal, in your electric cord, in your transfer switch, or in the 120VAC electrical panel in your coach.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by mel s

Vacationer04
I agree that one missing leg of the 50A power is most likely the cause of your problem.
The fault could be in the campground pedestal, in your electric cord, in your transfer switch, or in the 120VAC electrical panel in your coach.

Pretty sure the OP said it fails on Genset or Shore. That should eliminate pedestal and cord. I'd start at the distribution panel.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by vacationer04

It makes no difference if I use shore or GEN.

Originally Posted by bruceisla

Pretty sure the OP said it fails on Genset or Shore. That should eliminate pedestal and cord. I'd start at the distribution panel.

bruceisla
Right you are.
Sorry.
Mel

[vacationer04]

I checked the ATS and don't have voltage on all legs coming out of the ATS on the house side. I am currently at home with it adapted down to a 20A plug for power as I have since March. Will that let me do a voltage check? I do not have access to 50A here. In order to get a 50A source I would have to get new service to my house and that is not cost efficient to me at this point. Never needed more than 20A to keep my old 30A coach up and charged. It did not make any difference when I was plugged in to 50A at a campground.
I did discover today that if I touch the metal around the power compartment when shore is plugged in that I get a mild tingle. It did that once before. But not since the outlets failed so I thought it was no longer a relevant issue. The backfeed cord was not connected when that happened today. If it may be a grounding problem where should I start to look? I am not aware of where the 120V house power is grounded.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by vacationer04

I checked the ATS and don't have voltage on all legs coming out of the ATS on the house side. I am currently at home with it adapted down to a 20A plug for power as I have since March. Will that let me do a voltage check? I do not have access to 50A here. In order to get a 50A source I would have to get new service to my house and that is not cost efficient to me at this point. Never needed more than 20A to keep my old 30A coach up and charged. It did not make any difference when I was plugged in to 50A at a campground.
I did discover today that if I touch the metal around the power compartment when shore is plugged in that I get a mild tingle. It did that once before. But not since the outlets failed so I thought it was no longer a relevant issue. The backfeed cord was not connected when that happened today. If it may be a grounding problem where should I start to look? I am not aware of where the 120V house power is grounded.

vacationer04
It will.
However you have what's called a "hot skin condition" that could be deadly, and must be corrected...(Google "rv hot skin condition" for more information about that serious problem).

BTW the hot skin condition and your other A/C electrical problem may, or may not, be related.

Good luck.

Mel
'96 Safari

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by mel s

vacationer04
It will.
However you have what's called a "hot skin condition" that could be deadly, and must be corrected...(Google "rv hot skin condition" for more information about that serious problem).

BTW the hot skin condition and your other A/C electrical problem may, or may not, be related.

Good luck.

Mel
'96 Safari

Mel is right on !! ... in both statements.