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Old 07-28-2020, 05:11 PM   #29
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RS-4064 CAC Radiator and CAC Twin Fans for 97 Monaco Dynasty

To all,

I talked to Jim at Source Engineering agian today, and told him I think I found the part number for my 97 Dynasty CAC and Radiator. I told him I thought it was the RS-4125, but reminded him mine was a 97 not 2000, and that I had the two smaller hydraulic fans.

As soon I told him that, he said it could only be 1 of two options:
RS-4064 or RS-4163 (See Pics)

Because of the file quality, it is hard to find major differences in dims. The label location and number of fins per inch differences, should make it easier for anyone to determine which one they have, before pulling the parts.

While my new plan does not have me replacing these, I will still remove at least the CAC to clean everything and have an estimate for fixing. Then depending on back pain and heat exhaustion, my wife and I might pull the radiator, and have it tested/cleaned.

We actually had rain today in our area, so still have not started work. My remote tach and temp sensors come in tomorrow, so I hope to get started, and post pictures and firm data.

FYI, the current quote from SE was $3339.00 for just Radiator and CAC, or 4171.00 to add the AC condenser.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf RS 4064.pdf (371.5 KB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf RS 4163.pdf (365.5 KB, 2 views)
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:42 PM   #30
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7/2020 Pricing on Source Engineering RS-4064 & Re-4163 CAC & Radiator Update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightstuffer View Post
To all,

I talked to Jim ...
...FYI, the current quote from SE was $3339.00 for just Radiator and CAC, or 4171.00 to add the AC condenser.:
Notification of Error!!!
I was wrong about the pricing from Source Engineering on the current price for the CAC and Radiator for 97 Monaco Dynasty. I was double checking the price and availability this morning, and here is the clarification:

1. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 CAC Only is $3339.00

2. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 CAC adding the oil cooler and AC condenser 0nly is $4171.00.

3. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 Radiator Only is $6,422.00

4. The total cost (as of 07/29/2020) for the entire RS-4163 Radiator, CAC, Oil Cooler and AC condenser stack is $10,593

Prices are for new parts, before shipping.
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:08 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rightstuffer View Post
Notification of Error!!!
I was wrong about the pricing from Source Engineering on the current price for the CAC and Radiator for 97 Monaco Dynasty. I was double checking the price and availability this morning, and here is the clarification:

1. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 CAC Only is $3339.00

2. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 CAC adding the oil cooler and AC condenser 0nly is $4171.00.

3. The current price (as of 07/29/2020) for the RS-4163 Radiator Only is $6,422.00

4. The total cost (as of 07/29/2020) for the entire RS-4163 Radiator, CAC, Oil Cooler and AC condenser stack is $10,593

Prices are for new parts, before shipping.


Rightstuff; after your due diligence and checking. Many items suggested to check and confirm before doing what Iím currently doing. If you proceed with removal if radiator, CAC and associated coolers. RSH is the way to go, they can build you anything. If you go the whole package: it will be around 6k plus shipping. I made the 5 hour trip to their facility, they checked all for leaks and confirmed what I knew. Electrolysis, and holes in a previously repaired aluminum radiator. (PO) spent 4-5 months in Alaska every year. Some rust and corrosion doesnít help.
Derek is very helpful at RHS.
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:32 PM   #32
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We just had our radiator and CAC replaced at Source Engineering in Oregon. It was about $8K all in including a new aluminum surge tank. I popped in a few times while they were at it and this is not a job I would ever attempt. Special lifting devices under the wheels for raising the coach 3 feet in the air, stand up forklifts for taking the heavy assembly in and out, air tools, etc. They replaced like for like and the same company in Sacramento that made the original rads made the new ones. The part number is RS1425.

Our coach would only make 10 pounds of boost with our leaking CAC. The fins on the old radiator would literally disintegrate when you rubbed your fingers across them. The techs were amazed we made it to their shop. Glad it's done and hope to get the same life out of the new ones. You are in a tough position. Best of luck.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:15 AM   #33
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Current 2008 Monaco Camelot Radiator and CAC Price

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Boomer View Post
Rightstuff; after your due diligence and checking. Many items suggested to check and confirm before doing what Iím currently doing. If you proceed with removal if radiator, CAC and associated coolers. RSH is the way to go, they can build you anything. If you go the whole package: it will be around 6k plus shipping. I made the 5 hour trip to their facility, they checked all for leaks and confirmed what I knew. Electrolysis, and holes in a previously repaired aluminum radiator. (PO) spent 4-5 months in Alaska every year. Some rust and corrosion doesnít help.
Derek is very helpful at RHS.
Perry,
I will call RSH now that I have the part number for my 97 Monaco Dynasty CAC and Radiator, to see what there current price is. As previously stated $6K is not doable for us. If we had $6K, I would buy all new parts, and worry about next months rent, food, life, another day. (We have been living on the financial edge of being homeless since 2007, nothing new.)

But since we do not have it, that is why I was looking for a completely different solution, using the much cheaper heavy truck alternatives.

Did you see my post #13 in this thread for the 2008 Monaco CAC and Radiator for only $999.00?

You are right, there is so much that can and will be done, before resorting to purchasing a new CAC and Radiator, and that is our current plan. I love new parts, because then I can have the peace of mind (Very important for crazy people like me) of knowing, I will not have to worry about them agian for many years or even decades.

So here is my easement:
The current RV vendors, both good and bad, know if you have a RV, they can price gouge you. They think if you can afford an RV, you have the money, or you have no other choice.

How is it possible that my used RV cost $20K almost three years ago now, the used engine cost $10K, and to buy a new CAC and Radiator from the original manufacturer the cost is $10K (No freight or installation labor!)? So the rest of my RV is worthless? The 7.5K Onan generator has no value? Go try to buy one of those, and it will not be free.

My point here is, this is the way it is, has always been, and will always be.

When I see things like this in life, I call BS, and find another way. The only reason I am trying to post 2020 current prices for these parts, is to help others, and validate my claim, that if there is heavy truck parts that can replace these ridiculously over priced parts, it is worth the time an effort to either prove or disprove this idea. And that's all I have is time right now.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:55 AM   #34
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2020 Current Source Engineering CAC and Radiator Pricing

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman1 View Post
We just had our radiator and CAC replaced at Source Engineering in Oregon. It was about $8K all in including a new aluminum surge tank. I popped in a few times while they were at it and this is not a job I would ever attempt. Special lifting devices under the wheels for raising the coach 3 feet in the air, stand up forklifts for taking the heavy assembly in and out, air tools, etc. They replaced like for like and the same company in Sacramento that made the original rads made the new ones. The part number is RS1425.

Our coach would only make 10 pounds of boost with our leaking CAC. The fins on the old radiator would literally disintegrate when you rubbed your fingers across them. The techs were amazed we made it to their shop. Glad it's done and hope to get the same life out of the new ones. You are in a tough position. Best of luck.
snowman1,
If Source Engineering (SE) currently wants over $10K for just parts for the RS-4163 version of the CAC, Radiator, oil cooler and AC condenser, the $8K you paid for the RS1425 CAC and Radiator parts and installation, was a really good deal!

Did this include the oil cooler as well, or did they re-use your old one?

I agree, the labor to do this is very impressive, and to do it right, takes lots of big and expensive tools and support equipment. And they need to make money to keep the lights on, and pay their employees hopefully well.

After talking with many different people, on multiple forums, I am seeing a trend in the RV centers minimum repair cost to be around $4K-$6K, regardless of what they are performing. Sometimes you are getting burned, some time it seems really cheap, for what they are doing.

Due to our very limited finances, my wife and I are forced to perform the repairs ourselves.

Now I am really confused! I thought SE was the original manufacturer of our Monaco CACs and Radiators. You mentioned your parts came from Sacramento. Did SE buy these parts from them, have them shipped??? They told me they perform all manufacturing in house. So it had to be cheaper to go to an outside source, rather than for them to build you new ones.

My boost is also very low (Under 10 lbs.) due to the confirmed leaks in the CAC. I have seen spikes up around 20 lbs., but it is never maintained, and is only very temporary. ( a few seconds or less.)

Now for the latest update:
I was finally able to get under the back end, and look around myself.

1. It turns out I have the single fan option. Hopefully the RS-4125. So Jim was actually the first to provide the right part number for my 97 Dynasty. (Thanks agian Jim!)

2. The wax solenoid, has a giant ball of grease around it. You can not see the part, or even the lines were they connect. (Not good!)

3. I was able to reach up through the fan, and touch the backside of the radiator (Gently), and it felt like grass or hay! I did not press down, or run my fingers over the fins, but there is defiantly a lot of debris, or worse the fins are rotting away.

Will post pictures later today.
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Old 08-01-2020, 02:45 PM   #35
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Remove the CAC and radiator

The only lower-cost alternatives for you involve repairing your existing CAC and radiator, something that is common and has been done by hundreds of folks on this forum. Until you remove them, you cannot ASSESS your situation...you can only speculate about it.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:05 PM   #36
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Remove/Replace/Repair 97 Monaco Dynasty CAC and Radiator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill View Post
The only lower-cost alternatives for you involve repairing your existing CAC and radiator, something that is common and has been done by hundreds of folks on this forum. Until you remove them, you cannot ASSESS your situation...you can only speculate about it.
VanWill,

Thank you for your words of wisdom, and experience. I have spent one year now reading all the other posts about this topic. Unfortunately there is not a thread, that covers a 97 Dynasty, and shows step by step instructions, tools list, and reference photos and/or videos for this entire procedure. Some are very good, but slightly different due to the well know differences even in the same year model Monaco's.

I am trying to piece all this available data together, add current cross referenced part numbers/prices and properly document to help the next guy that faces this problem, as of 2020/2021.

Due to my mental and memory problems, depression caused by all this, and so much data, I am beginning to become overwhelmed by all this. I am to stupid and crazy to stop now, so my only option is to overcome, attack, and have a successful result, for the lowest price possible. It was my original hope to accomplish in a few months, but now realize this will take a very long time, based on our budget and physical abilities to perform the labor.

Thank you agian, and I understand sometimes, there is only one way to do something. Thank god there are so many like you, that offer suggestions and advice based on your experiences. I really appreciate your help.
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Old 08-01-2020, 03:34 PM   #37
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97 Monaco Dynasty Wax Solenoid and CAC/Radiator Problem Photos

99 Problems, and They are all 97 Monaco!

Ok Group,
I sprayed down the Wax Solenoid with degreaser located in the upper left corner of the radiator, let sit for 2 Ĺ hours and washed off. This is what it still looks like! I am no hydraulics expert, but this can not help the normal cooling function/operation. (See Pics)

I then got pictures of the inside (Engine Side) of the Radiator, and Tada, there is the problem. (See Pics)

I have never owned a disel engine before, but my lifelong past experience with high horsepower engines, aviation equipment, and the hundreds of threads here, I can safely say this is what has been causing (or the major factor) the engine is overheating from day 1.

I have spray cleaned the Radiator and CAC two times now, but never been able to get up under the RV to spray this side and to visually inspect. Due to my age, disabilities, back problems and fat gut, I will be in bed for several days recovering, just for being under there for less than 30 minutes off and on today. My back is toast!

How I think my wife and I can handle disassembly, removal, and proper re-installation of the CAC/Radiator assembly is a pipe dream. It is very unrealistic to think we can pull this off on a gravel drive, in the middle of the Texas heat.

So now everyone knows how crazy and stupid I truly am. Unfortunately, we have no choice. I have made up my mind, I must try, and if it kills me, so be it.

I am now estimating more than 2 months to pull this repair off.

Once I am on the ground, I can stay there for some time. The getting up and down and crawling around is what is killing my back. God bless my wife Lynn, but there is only so much she can help me from the outside. And once I hurt myself, it takes a couple of days to recover, before I can keep working.

Now to my other 98 problems:
1. The new batteries will not keep a charge, since returning from Cummins for the engine swap.
2. Cummins told me, someone modified my battery compartment, so that all three batteries are joined together. So, if there is a problem, it drains all three.
3. Since engine swap out, the generator is no longer charging the batteries. I jump the RV with my car, and the generator will run for up to 30 minutes, before it dies, and there is no power to re-start generator, start the engine, or for even the steps to work.
4. When Cummins disconnected the batteries, they never tightened down the wire clamps properly. They were hand lose. I fixed this thinking that is why I am now having problems, but no luck.
5. I have checked the water level on the engine battery, and it is now low. If my new batteries are toast, I do not know what to do.
6. I told Cummins to inspect and replace as many hoses as possible for our budget, and if they could not replace, at least tell me what needed replacement. Today I found that the two hydraulic lines going to the wax solenoid, are worn down to the inner metal. They do not appear to be wet, or leaking, but if I fix everything else, I am sure these will blow out.

So, this is going to take a while to fix at best. At worst, My RV will be in parts, and it will not have been started and run for possibly many months to come.

So, the saga continues, I will try to post updates and milestones as they are individually reached.

Here is the updated plan and estimated worse case timeline, based on our budget and my physical limitations:
1. Remove the CAC and Radiator, and have repaired. (3-4 weeks)
2. Remove the fan, and have rebuilt with rebuild kit. (1-2 weeks)
3. Drain the hydraulic reservoir, change filters and hoses. (1-2 weeks)
4. Diagnose and repair electrical problems. (Till the end of time?)
5. Replace all coolant hoses, and CAC couplers. (1-2 weeks)
6. Reassembly. (4-5 weeks)
Projected completion: Up to 4 months
Projected budget: $3,000.00

I still love my Dynasty. It is old, and screwed up like me. It needs help like me. I refuse to give up, like the world has done to me and my wife. We are all a perfect fit for each other.
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Old 08-01-2020, 05:19 PM   #38
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97 Monaco Dynasty Very Bad Radiator!!!!!

Ok, looks like by not being able to apply the Simple Green and Dawn method (Described in detail in other threads.), to the engine side of the radiator, I have actually made a very dirty radiator problem even worse.

All of the dirt and grime off the fresh air side of the CAC, I sprayed through the CAC toward the radiator, has collected on the far side of the radiator, leaving little (If any) path for the air to come through.

It looks completely solid!

Also there are many bent fins, and visible corrosion. And that is on the outside! What do you think the inside looks like at this point. Due to the horrible condition of the radiator, when I performed the flushing, I might have clogged the stressed pathways with big chucks of crap, that were loosened, and found there way down to a choke point.

So, by the combination of my broken water level sensor, and improperly cleaning of my very dirty radiator in horrible condition, I blew up a million mile Cummins motor with only 117,000 miles on it.
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Old 08-02-2020, 10:39 AM   #39
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Paul, even with all you have provided pix of, the radiator and CAC may both be salvageable or even serviceable as is. I still think you need to remove both of them so you can examine their condition. If your radiator is not leaking, just getting it out so that you can clean it might solve your overheating problem

I have removed radiator/CAC from two Dynasty models--1993 and 2000. It is not fun, but it's not rocket science. I'm 71 and I don't recall either of them being too heavy to handle from under the coach.

Perhaps some good Samaritan close to you might offer to help? Anyone out there who is close by that could help Paul? I am about 1100 miles away.
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Old 08-03-2020, 07:04 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill View Post
Paul, even with all you have provided pix of, the radiator and CAC may both be salvageable or even serviceable as is. I still think you need to remove both of them so you can examine their condition. If your radiator is not leaking, just getting it out so that you can clean it might solve your overheating problem



I have removed radiator/CAC from two Dynasty models--1993 and 2000. It is not fun, but it's not rocket science. I'm 71 and I don't recall either of them being too heavy to handle from under the coach.



Perhaps some good Samaritan close to you might offer to help? Anyone out there who is close by that could help Paul? I am about 1100 miles away.


Oh Van your a sting chicken buddy! Paul cost is always an issue, but basic problem solving is still the same. Itís not an easy task to remove the items, but it can be done, like Van states a little help is very useful with the bulk of the radiator and CAC. Keep track of parts, lots of pictures.
I just remembered a radiator company in Mississippi. Let me know if you want there info. I believe they are familiar with Monaco.
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:09 PM   #41
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DIY Removal of 97 Monaco Dynasty CAC & Radiator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill View Post
Paul, even with all you have provided pix of, the radiator and CAC may both be salvageable or even serviceable as is. I still think you need to remove both of them so you can examine their condition. If your radiator is not leaking, just getting it out so that you can clean it might solve your overheating problem

I have removed radiator/CAC from two Dynasty models--1993 and 2000. It is not fun, but it's not rocket science. I'm 71 and I don't recall either of them being too heavy to handle from under the coach.

Perhaps some good Samaritan close to you might offer to help? Anyone out there who is close by that could help Paul? I am about 1100 miles away.
Van,

Thank you for the optimistic outlook on my CAC and Radiator. You are right about removing the CAC and Radiator, then going from there. My CAC can be repaired, to net the lowest possible cost, since Lynn and I are doing the Removal & Replacement (R&R) labor ourselves.

I hate to disagree, or let my string of bad luck lead me to believe that my Radiator will have to be re-built after we clean it with the Simple Green & Dawn method, but it is in really bad condition, now that I can visually inspect the engine side.

I got this really cool and cheap endoscope from Amazon (Under $85). See Pics. I can now see places that I could not see with my physical limitations, and horrible working conditions. (On uneven gravel, during the HOT Texas Summer.)

Once we get them off, I will post very high-res and detailed pictures of the Radiator, so that you and others can weigh-in with you experience, suggestions and thoughts.

There are several heavy radiator shops in the DFW metroplex, and it will come down to their reputation, warranty and cost, to who we end up using.

Since your post, Warren (97 Dynasty owner with same paint scheme as ours.) in Plano has made an offer to come help me.
I really can not thank you enough for your advice and recommendations based on your previous experience with R&R of Monaco CACs and Radiators, and also putting that call for help out there!

Knowing that you and others are out there trying to help, is all that is keeping me going right now. In fact, this forum, is the only reason I bought the RV in the first place. Once I learned there is zero factory support for the year model we were thinking about buying, and the fact I have never owned a disel engine before, I felt that these risks were outweighed by the vast knowledge, and kind wanting to help spirit of everyone here.

I am very down right now, but I do see light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you agian!
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Old 08-03-2020, 01:25 PM   #42
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Monaco Radiator & CAC Repair Shop in Mississippi

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10Boomer View Post
Oh Van your a sting chicken buddy! Paul cost is always an issue, but basic problem solving is still the same. Itís not an easy task to remove the items, but it can be done, like Van states a little help is very useful with the bulk of the radiator and CAC. Keep track of parts, lots of pictures.
I just remembered a radiator company in Mississippi. Let me know if you want there info. I believe they are familiar with Monaco.
Perry,

Thank you for confirming this can be done, and helpful hints on how to do it! Please post the repair shop in Mississippi contact info here. Too far for me to travel, but it could help others, that browse here looking for data.

I hope to post very detailed step by step instructions, with pictures to help the next Monaco owner that faces this common issue.

OPS, I forgot the pic of the endoscope. Here it is with link to it. It worked right out of the box. The USB rechargeable battery was fully charged, and it has a focal point of less than 1 inch to across the room.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Endoscope Inspection Camera, Digital Industrial Endoscope Dual Lens 1080P full HD 4.3'' LCD Screen Handheld Borescopes with 16.4ft Semi-Rigid Cable,6 LED lights,32G SD Card,Pipe Sewer Inspection Camera

I first bought the cheapest one on Amazon for $30, and it was junk, did not work easily, and the picture was all scrambled. (Returned.)
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