Community Forums

ereadingrv · 12-30-2015, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelledan

Just an FYI here. When the alternator stops charging, the engine and all accessories begin feeding off battery power. Once the batteries deplete below 11.5 volts the engine is no longer fed any information from it's sensors. That means no oil pressure information, no coolant temperature information, no boost pressure information, etc. When that information link stops, all the alarms that stay silent during normal operation will begin to sound off and will be accompanied by warning lights like stop engine, low oil pressure, low coolant level, etc. In other words, the alternator may be the only real problem and everything else cascaded behind it by default. When you turned off the engine in the aftermath of all the warnings, the batteries were depleted to the point where restarting the engine was not possible as there wasn't enough power left in them to crank it.
Dan

Dan, this all makes sense to us. This is probably the main, if not one of the main, components of this entire situation. Thanks!

Pelledan · 12-30-2015, 07:05 AM

There is another hidden problem that all that oil mess has caused that needs to be addressed. There is no doubt that the engine cooling fan has done a great job of propelling that oil against and through the radiator cooling fins AND into the Charge Air Cooler fins. If that oil is not removed with the proper soap/solvent solution and followed by a good pressure rinse, it will become a magnet for road dirt/dust that will ultimately clog all the air cooling passages which will create another stop engine alarm due to overheating. The main risk there is the possibility of warping the cylinder head out of flat due to the high heat. Repairing that would require a partial engine tear down which would be extremely costly. Spend the time and get all the oil out of the fins on both components. Use caution in pressure cleaning the fins. They bend easily, so be careful.

Dan

jacwjames · 12-30-2015, 09:13 AM

ereadingrv

After reading the post from Mike and your response I went back and reread your first post. I read exactly what Mike had, that the stop engine light came on and you proceeded to drive it off the highway.

If that was the case I would tend to agree with Mike's diagnosis, possibly bearing failure.

You clarified to say you stopped immediately and put oil in it, hopefully you caught it in time and did no significant damage to the engine.

AS far as the driveline, if the end joints of the driveline are not damaged significantly you can replace the U-joints at a fairly nominal charge, especially since the driveline is already out. Having +~100k on my coach I bought a spare set of U-joints for ~$100 and carried them just in case. As per chance last year I had a radiator failure and had to be towed to the Cummins shop. When I finally got it home ~ 1 month later I found that the shop had not installed the driveling in phase and had to pull it to put it in phase. One of the U-joint caps would not come out so I had to destroy it but had a spare U-joint so I installed. Still have 1 spare U-Joint. If one of the ends of your drive line is damaged a good truck ship should be able to repair and rebalance for a nominal cost.

Good luck on your efforts to resolve the issues you are currently having.

Windecker · 12-31-2015, 07:04 AM

Boy this is a hard read with tension and frustration all over. Sure am sorry to read through all of these issues. Hopefully it can be worked out and you can get back on your way ereadingrv!

Something not mentioned is that Monaco opted to have these engine lights be advisory rather than debilitating. What that means is a stop engine light comes on allowing you the driver the ability to remove yourself from danger. The other option Monaco had was to allow the engine to SHUT ITSELF down at the code initialization. Monaco felt better to possibly damage the engine than have you be in a position of danger when the engine shuts itself off. Imagine driving down a windy steep grade and the engine shutting down, that would be terrible.

Regardless of if you drove the engine with the stop light on or not, things happen and until you are there, in that position, nobody knows exactly what they would do.

I have no idea what kind of text message you got but from what I read on this forum, did not see sarcasm, I just see folks trying to help. Given the very unfortunate situation you are in, can understand how even the smallest thing can be taken personal.

One other thing, the alternator apparently drives the tachometer on many rigs so a slipping belt does possibly explain more of this situation.

Hope you get going and can get back to what it is you started out to do.
Windecker

CJScepter · 12-31-2015, 10:19 PM

I had a 99 Diplomat that lost the alternator, I put some jumper cables from the coach batteries to the chassis batteries, started the generator and finished the 200 miles to home. Do you have a volt meter to check the voltage on each battery bank. A question I have is did you check the oil level with the dip stick, I've never been much on waiting for the lights to tell me. Also, as I remember the valve cover gasket was pretty clear of any wires, tubes, etc. Maybe I don't remember correctly but seemed like that might be one of the easier things to replace, I replaced the hoses and belts and had to go under the bed and then under the coach, just takes time. Just some things you could check.
Good luck, remember none of us "was born a mechanic" we learned by our mistakes! sometimes many mistakes.
Happy 2016 to you, it will get better.
John G

Dan Osborne · 01-02-2016, 12:37 PM

Any Updates? I hope that it is not as bad as it seems.

427ford · 01-02-2016, 02:49 PM

Even a small leak on a pressurized part of an engine (gasket, hose, tubing, seal) will blow oil all over the place. The easiest way to find the culprit is clean any suspected area with solvent, add UV dye to the engine's oil fill, and top up the oil to the proper level. Start and idle, and carefully look for the dye with a UV lamp. Be very careful of getting near any moving parts. The UV dye is found at most auto parts stores. A good road service diesel mechanic should be able to find your problem.

OK.. so once the oil leak is found and fixed (it could be something very simple like a loose clamp or bolt), you'll need to degrease the belt(s) and get as much puddled up oil out of the engine compartment as you can (you don't need an engine fire). Fully charge your batteries. Get the rig to a shop and get the engine bay degreased (shouldn't be expensive). You should be good to go.

There's not enough room here to tell you some of our RV'ing horror stories! However, we did have fun as well. Stuff happens and sometimes you need to step back for a minute and take a deep breath to retain sanity.

Hope you're on the road soon and can put this all behind you.

ereadingrv · 01-04-2016, 06:43 PM

Okay, update time. The holidays meant we had virtually no available mechanics or anyone else able to come out and help us, so today has really been the first time we've had people we don't know look at the problem.

Before the holiday, two guys came out and spent SIX HOURS on the coach and couldn't tell us what was wrong with the engine OR restore the chassis power.

Today, a provider came out and claimed we'd "melted" some relay in the battery compartment, but couldn't really show us anything that was "melted". Therefore, I tend to believe it was something else, because he literally got us chassis power in EIGHT MINUTES. Yes, eight minutes.

So, now the engine cranks but will not start. While trying to crank it, the alternator light dims. The mechanic who came today told us that we had a hole in one of the engine pistons, then told us we needed a new engine and that "labor would be $5K alone, and that doesn't include the engine."

I'm suspicious of his assessment, because I called a couple of diesel engine rebuilding shops, and they quoted labor of $1,800-2,500 to put the engine back in IF the engine actually needs to be repaired at that level. The engine itself seems to range from $2,500 - 4,500.

But I'm just not convinced we're at that point yet. He tried to get the engine to start using "ether" (or so he told us), but I'm not sure what that would accomplish. It certainly did nothing today.

So, does anyone have any thoughts? We're certainly not sure what to do next, with the limited funds we have. We certainly cannot afford to rebuild the engine. Not even close.

Mike Canter · 01-04-2016, 06:53 PM

Highly recommend getting it to a Cummins dealership and have them look at the motor. If there is a hole in the piston then that would explain the initial power loss then the pressurization of the crankcase that would then in turn push the oil out of the gasket at the rate you said it was flowing. At least having the engine crank means that you didn't spin a rod bearing. The only true way to tell if there is a hole in a piston other than taking off the head is to do a cyclinder compression check.

ereadingrv · 01-04-2016, 07:14 PM

What troubles us, and our regular mechanic, is that the guy who came out made this piston assessment without doing a compression check OR addressing the issue of the oil leak.

Our mechanic does not feel this is a blown engine situation or a bad piston. He thinks we may just not be getting enough power to actually turn the engine over all the way.

He's willing to jump us, but here's the question: HOW does he jump us? Where does he hook up the jumper cables? Perhaps a dumb question, but we just don't know and he's never jumped a coach before.

Secondly, will jumping us from an 8 cylinder jeep have any negative effect on his battery?

Many thanks!

Mike Canter · 01-04-2016, 07:40 PM

I have jumped my previous my with my pickup truck. Hooked jumper cables up to the battery posts like doing it on a car. Then I let my truck run for 20-30 minutes to charge the mh home battery up some then started it.if you run your generator and fully charge your house batteries then you can use battery boost to jump the chassis battery during start.

ahicks · 01-04-2016, 08:20 PM

Somebody that you trust as a mechanic, asking where/how to hook up jumper cables?

ereadingrv · 01-04-2016, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahicks

Somebody that you trust as a mechanic, asking where/how to hook up jumper cables?

He is not an RV mechanic, and he is not entirely clear on the electrical system of the coach. And yes, we trust him, because we've known him for years and he has done more to fix our issues thus far than any "diesel mechanic" who has come out to the coach and taken our money without delivering any real value or solution.

POSTSCRIPT: And for the record, he has done some research, he now understands the relationship between the chassis battery versus the house batteries. That was not entirely clear to him before, and by not clear, what I mean is that he did not know that the chassis batteries and house batteries were all together in the same location. As I've said before, and I think all owners of older Monaco's can attest, information pre-2000 is scarce and hard to come by. Even Monaco only has manuals going back to 2000.

Respectfully, I'd consider the differences between a coach and its complex electrical systems, and those of the average car, before passing judgement.

Pelledan · 01-05-2016, 06:00 AM

There is another way to check for cylinder/piston damage and that's with the use of a Bore Scope. It is a fiber optic device on a small diameter shaft that enters the cylinder through the injector port. Most diesel repair shops would have one. The injectors are removed and the Bore Scope enters the cylinder through its port and rotating its eyepiece allows a 360 degree view of the cylinder walls for scoring (scratches) and piston top/crown damage.
I agree with Mike in that there is a possibility of piston damage that caused the pressurization of the crank case. Although I would have expected the pressure to be released through the road tube rather than blowing out the tappet cover gasket. If there is piston/cylinder damage, the cause needs to be discovered. Did an injector tip fail? Was something left in the intake system when the turbo was replaced that found its way into the cylinder? The piston to head clearance on a diesel is only a few thousandths so any foreign object entering the cylinder would cause significant damage. It's time for a professional diagnosis at a reputable repair facility, and then determine the next step.

Dan