2004 Navigator 500ISM very long crank to fire up

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by Mhcorrigan

Sounds like air trapped in your fuel system. If you have the Winn system, bleed the system and see if that helps.

Lets take this slow as I dont speak compression ignition too well

What is the winn system ?

On my water separator as seen here # 1 is a shrader valve

and # 2. is a thumb screw with a rubber seal on it.

are you saying I shoud be bleeding from one of these?

When I replaced the filter I filled ( as much as I could ) thu #2 the thumb screw with the rubber seal then when I started the coach it ran for a second then died but then re-started.



Pardon the dust 11 miles of unpaved road thu the Big Horn mountains yesterday....not good

[CountryB]

Your system looks a lot like my Racor filter setup. It's hard to tell from the photo. Do you have the electric primer button as shown in the screen shot below?

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by RobRoy

So now that I’m 1000+ miles from home on a 6-8 week vacation this 500 ISM has developed a very very long crank to get started and just when you think the batteries are gonna give up the ghost it fires off with a puff of smoke and it fires up.

It cranks over very fast but takes 30 seconds or more to get started and It has good power once started. Ive been over the Big Horns and Chief Joseph highway and have no power issues at all… it’s only when you shut it down down for a bit and go to start it . ( normal it takes 5 sec or less)

I stopped in at Cummins in Gillette Wyoming they said 9-12 days to get to it …Ouch!

Fuel filters were just replaced with Fleetguard just few weeks before we left on this trip.

Yes I have a good idea what it takes to diagnose it properly …but was hoping maybe for a silver bullet or pattern failure and something simple. ( in my wildest dreams )

On the road in the Rockies and internet service is sketchy but appreciate any input.

Thanks in Advance

Puff of smoke means you have fuel - slow start usually means preheaters are gone. _you are up in the mountains of the Rockies - Colder - Does it restart easily when Warm?

Just my best guess.

Best of Luck,

On Edit - I looked over all the posts and the second issue if not restarting when warm is Likely a Blown Injector Tip or two $$$ - Usually this comes from a little water mixing in to the Fuel and will blow off the tip of the injector. Has the motor been sitting with the fuel tank not Full?

Sorry but Don't think you have a silver Bullet answer out there - Check around to a Diesel Shop - a lotta Farm equipment out there - So there are a lot of Smart Diesel Mechanics, not all in a big name shop.

[DanKathyC]

if all was good before the filter change, i would certainly start there. properly installed- all o-rings present, drain valve fully closed, filter nicely snug etc. i did have one where the o-ring on the drain valve was not properly installed at the factory- it sucked air but did not leak fuel. for no more than they cost i would start by replacing the filter again-could be something as simple as a stuck anti drain back valve

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by DanKathyC

if all was good before the filter change, i would certainly start there. properly installed- all o-rings present, drain valve fully closed, filter nicely snug etc. i did have one where the o-ring on the drain valve was not properly installed at the factory- it sucked air but did not leak fuel. for no more than they cost i would start by replacing the filter again-could be something as simple as a stuck anti drain back valve

^^^^^SMART^^^^^

Often History will help in the analysis.

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by Busskipper

Puff of smoke means you have fuel - slow start usually means preheaters are gone. _you are up in the mountains of the Rockies - Colder - Does it restart easily when Warm?

Just my best guess.

Best of Luck,

On Edit - I looked over all the posts and the second issue if not restarting when warm is Likely a Blown Injector Tip or two $$$ - Usually this comes from a little water mixing in to the Fuel and will blow off the tip of the injector. Has the motor been sitting with the fuel tank not Full?

Sorry but Don't think you have a silver Bullet answer out there - Check around to a Diesel Shop - a lotta Farm equipment out there - So there are a lot of Smart Diesel Mechanics, not all in a big name shop.

Got ya ...... once started you would never guess a issue.

Thank you

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by Busskipper

^^^^^SMART^^^^^

Often History will help in the analysis.

Thank you this is the same conclusion I came up with after sleeping on it all night, that being starting over and getting a new filter and taking a very close look at everything.

I tried to get a filter here in Cody and have struck out .....next stop Red Lodge and try to locate one there

Thanks again

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by CountryB

Your system looks a lot like my Racor filter setup. It's hard to tell from the photo. Do you have the electric primer button as shown in the screen shot below?

Mike that is my set up. That being said my electric prime function has never worked and per my diesel guy back home said to fill it the the tumb scew hole with and that is what I have done in the past ....cleaned around it with brake clean and same with a small funell and filled the filter. It would start and might stall but would re start and all was fine afterwards.

I wonder if i can bleed thu the shrader while engine running or will that let air into the system.

Im trying to locate another filter and start over because This may be a self inflicted issue


Thank you

[RobRoy]

As of this morning Im trying to locate a new filter and start over because as stated earlier this may be a self inflicted issue and causing the filter to lose its prime..... no filter in Cody WY on to Red Lodge MT

To be clear... so far the last 1200 miles it has alway s started and is not just hard starting when cold ......just shut it down for a hour ( maybe less) and you will have the long crank issue...and it cranks very fast but doesnt fire up until after @ 30 seconds and you hear the cranking rpm's start to slow then it fires off and runs fine.

Thank you all for your input

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by RobRoy

As of this morning Im trying to locate a new filter and start over because as stated earlier this may be a self inflicted issue and causing the filter to lose its prime..... no filter in Cody WY on to Red Lodge MT

To be clear... so far the last 1200 miles it has alway s started and is not just hard starting when cold ......just shut it down for a hour ( maybe less) and you will have the long crank issue...and it cranks very fast but doesnt fire up until after @ 30 seconds and you hear the cranking rpm's start to slow then it fires off and runs fine.

Thank you all for your input

Even without the New filter if it is the filter you might be able to Correct.

Could be the Seal - is it a flat o-ring? if so may be twisted and cause it to leak ever so slightly, if a round o-ring might just have something in the grove to cause it to not seat.

Hard to Imagine that the Filter is Bad - Must be the O-ring.

Depending how Mechanical you are will determine your action?

I'd Pull check and reset - But I had a Hundred pieces of equipment when in business and we just needed them to Run.

But as I said it sounds like a seal.........

Best of Luck - keep us in the loop - we all learn a little everyday.

[RobRoy]

Originally Posted by Busskipper

Even without the New filter if it is the filter you might be able to Correct.

Could be the Seal - is it a flat o-ring? if so may be twisted and cause it to leak ever so slightly, if a round o-ring might just have something in the grove to cause it to not seat.

yes its square cut seal

Hard to Imagine that the Filter is Bad - Must be the O-ring.

I agree.

Depending how Mechanical you are will determine your action?

I'd Pull check and reset - But I had a Hundred pieces of equipment when in business and we just needed them to Run.

But as I said it sounds like a seal.........

Best of Luck - keep us in the loop - we all learn a little everyday.

I believe its self inflicted on the install by me I just dont want to take apart in the middle of nowhere unless I have a spare .....because I still runnins as of now.

Thank you

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by RobRoy

I believe its self inflicted on the install by me I just dont want to take apart in the middle of nowhere unless I have a spare .....because I still runnins as of now.

Thank you

In your route today Look for a Diesel Mechanic along the way - Trust me - out west they are GOOD - Really GOOD.

Pull in and ask - they will likely fix it on the spot.

Something like this - https://www.google.com/search?q=Buff...,lf:1,lf_ui:10

Best of Luck,

[RamiDav]

RobRoy ,


Is that a Racor 200200 ?

If it is take a look at these places they may shed some light .




https://oregonfuelinjection.com/shop...it-for-200200/


Racor RK12963 Retrofit Kit



Ray

[Mhcorrigan]

When trying to use prime button, is your ignition switch on, which it must be to function.