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Old 11-09-2018, 01:20 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by dalemschultz View Post
Myron & Harry,


You guys are working overtime for me! Can't tell you how much I appreciate your above and beyond efforts. Wow!


Okay, so I only see one motor in the back panel of the step cover enclosure, if that helps Myron. The relays are an area I've been to before regarding headlights & running lights. I was reading in the manual about relays and they get pretty specific (for once) about types of relays. I'll pick up a few this pm at the Auto Zone, but how do I compare relays there? Is a relay replacement good if the "feet" look the same? Additionally, do the markings (if any?) on the relay's side have to match up as well. Relays seem to be like fuses, I go through them. Will a continuity check on a relay help determine it's fitness or if it's bad?


Again, many thanks!
Dale
A continuity test will sometimes work but often rattling a relay about can make things work intermittently. In some cases yes it is definitive but swapping one out is so much easier.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bosh...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Here are some examples. The Bosh relay is one I bought literally by the sack full over the years.

The diagrams are often on the sides as you found. Having the same pin layout. It is important they do the same function and close the proper contacts/pins.

I will try to dig up another relay video I saved a couple of months ago.

The schematic with the two motors leaves some valuable information out on how the motors or motor is wired. I just can't tell what magic they are using if you have one motor.

That said, one could have a DPDT double pole double throw relay being driven which could be a migration they made from two motors to one.

In that case the DPDT relay would have more pins on it.
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Old 11-09-2018, 01:27 PM   #58
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Relay operation
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:05 PM   #59
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Friends,


I confirmed Harry's information for my board that if either the #2, or #3 relay is missing the step-cover is dead. I replaced both relays from "Spare" & Bay Lights" locations and it was interesting. The step-cover deployed as usual, but on the third or fourth retract switch press, it retracted! The same operation was done on the co-pilot's console. Responsive extend and delayed retract (various tries 1-6 times!). Checked the original relays back in "Bay Lights socket for instant feedback, and they both worked n that socket! So, I can extend the step-cover and I can eventually retract it! Is that the best to hope for? it's much better than it was...
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
Relay operation
Very helpful Myron. Glad I watched that. When buying relays, what's the best course to take to get the correct one? Are they like fuses and have different ratings or configurations or are they pretty much 5 terminals with power, ground, 87, 87A, etc.


Thanks,
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:11 PM   #61
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First, it is not uncommon to have more that one problem. Yes you could even have two switches that are funky on the close mode.

I had to replace both of my switches. At different times but both failed. One of mine on my outside awning control has been replaced three times. It lives in a bad enviornment and is mounted upside down allowing moisture to get in there.

You apparently have a bad relay since it now goes both ways although it is a bit strange.

A voltmeter on the wires on the switch would tell the story quickly.

As for deciding which relays one should buy there is not one quick answer. However the 1 inch or 1.2 inch approx black relays with 5 terminals are very common and live in lots of places on our rv's. I refer to them as Bosh relays just because it was so common in my shop and everyone knew what we were speaking of.

The simple Bosh relay is rated at 30 amps but they don't like that much current for long times. Sure some folks might do it but I would not suggest it.

Another example of relays is the one used to combine the batteries. Those can be monsters. They have two large posts and two small posts.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:49 PM   #62
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Dale the relays Harry are describing, we do have slight variances. I think my board is wired more towards a 2009 run bay. My relays ( off to the upper left) are as follows. Tag axle, low beams, and high beams.
Found this out by doing a mode Harry suggested by adding relays to lights and driving lights. The driving lights worked great, low/high beams already had a relay, so adding a second didn稚 any value.
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Old 11-09-2018, 08:53 PM   #63
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Dale, yours, mine, and Perry's, like most Monaco's, have two switches and one motor. So, yours fits the mold and isnt a snowflake in this respect.

Maybe in 2009 Monaco thought a two motor, one switch system was the way to go, but never implemented such, before their bankruptcy. And after talking at length to the new head EE at Monaco in 2008, I understand there was much confusion going on. He had his hands full. Hence a incorrect 2009 wiring diagram was released.

So, back to yours. Let's see if you can get a nice silicone lube sprayed on all the moving parts. Shield off the sides of the stairwell and spray away. Spray the screw, linkages and the roller guides. Work it a few times and repeat. Hopefully, you will get this bugger working good. If not QZ is in your future.

My cover wont extend from the retracted position one in ten times. Wife wonders what is going on. So, i just bump the extend switch quickly 2 or 3 times, and out it pops. Drove her bonkers, until I told her the secret. It isn't consistent to where I can catch it in the act using a volt meter. But, eventually I will.

And, I took the damn switch off the key. Just hated to stop to check in at campground, or at fuel stop, turn the key off, then have the DUH moment.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:06 PM   #64
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I buy these 5 at a time, both for spares and projects from Parts Express.

https://www.parts-express.com/12-vdc...-type--330-073

They carry the socket/pigtail too, if you are doing a project, or just adding a relay to the headlight circuit. I had only 10.5 volts to my headlights until I installed relays.

Pay attention to Daytime Running Lights, as the above relay will fit the socket and just might create havoc. Haven't wanted to find out. That socket uses a special DRL relay. BTW, does yours have the same front run PCB as mine?
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:29 PM   #65
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Dale, I use an iPhone for taking IRV2 pictures, and an iPad to for reading and posting to IRV2.

My go to app to clean up pictures is Snapseed, by Google.

Then, for annotations, I use another app called Skitch.

I just checked, and both Snapseed and Skitch are available for Android.
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Old 11-10-2018, 05:50 AM   #66
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Dale, I had the same issue and it was not electrical. It was mechanical. The cover would get stuck closed. Sometimes hitting the switch would work, sometimes I had to give the thing a kick in the pants.

I replaced both switches when the crazy intermittent led me to believe they were bad.

It turned out to be the way the thing is built and a cross arm bolt would get stuck. I can't describe it any longer because it has been too long.

Ultimately the solution was to place a thin block of wood behind the face of the step cover so it cannot close up so tightly. It does not protrude with the stop block behind it.

I had tried a block to make the bolt in question ride up and over where it jammed but that only sort of worked. Blocking the cover from retracting tightly is just enough to solve the crazy intermittent.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:31 AM   #67
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Myron, you said;



"A voltmeter on the wires on the switch would tell the story quickly."


Please help me. I'm new to a DMM. Place meter in the lowest Ohm reading, negative lead to good ground, positive lead to WHERE on the many leads of the switch while switch is activated? So as to check continuity?



Harry,



I'll spray everything with my silicone spray and really get it in there. Hopefully, we can get it to retract on the first try, but I'd be okay with even the third or fourth try.


Thank you for the information on the Apps. you use for the very instructional pictures you take. I have the iphone 6+ and I'll download those Apps.


Harry, you said;


"And, I took the damn switch off the key. Just hated to stop to check in at campground, or at fuel stop, turn the key off, then have the DUH moment."


Can you elucidate this procedure for me. That is a pain to have the function tied to the key. Thank you!


You also said;
"Pay attention to Daytime Running Lights, as the above relay will fit the socket and just might create havoc. Haven't wanted to find out. That socket uses a special DRL relay. BTW, does yours have the same front run PCB as mine"


1. Can you find the special DRL relay at a descent auto parts store or does it need to ordered from say, Parts-Express like you mentioned? Thank you for that lead.
2. I've had some issues (already) with my running lights and headlights deciding to work or not! Very frustrating! Last trip (and our maiden voyage), we were a bit lost looking for a small road (unmarked as it turns out) at dusk, all we had for lights we're parking lights and fog. Had to stop in a bad spot for lack of safety and dreaded it all night! So I'm very interested in your design to add harness and relays for these light, if it makes them more reliable sir.


Myron,


Your solution of adding a block for prevent excessive travel seems elegant. I may need to visit that once I get the thing lubed and retracting better (more reliably). Today, I'm going to install brand new relays in those #2, & #3 relay positions and see if in addition to better lubrication, perhaps otherwise "good" relays might just be a little flaky.



Are these switches we have inside the coach on the consoles available with the same markings on them or are they generic and need to labeled by us? What is your source for them if I do need to go that way. I'm building a database of suppliers and parts.



Thank you so much Perry, Harry & Myron! You gentlemen are the best friend a newbie could have. A precious resource!


Dale


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Old 11-10-2018, 10:01 AM   #68
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Gentlemen,


Here's my Motherboard.





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Old 11-10-2018, 06:32 PM   #69
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Friends,


Hallelujah and Amen! FINALLY, resolved this issue! The step cover is now full functional both retract and extend on the first try. A lesson in perseverance.

Yesterday I put other relays in #2 & #3 slots and was able to extend reliably as usual and was able to get a periodic retract. Felt like I was moving in the right direction. Bought two new relays and replaced the just inserted ones in #2 & #3 sockets. This time the cover retracted but would not extend! I was able to determine that the "extend" wires went to the left most socket (#2) and retract to the other. So which ever direction was working, had a known good relay in that socket. Swapped out the bad direction relay and magic! No hesitation, no switch clicks with no response, no binding, no stalling. I hope I've explained this well enough. Bottom line is IT WORKS!


Thank you Myron, Perry and Harry!
I hope to get to Quartzsite to you all in 2020. We're leaving for Florida in 2 weeks and won't be back home until April. Arizona next year!
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:27 PM   #70
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Dale

So glad it work out. Now buy spare Bosch style relays. If not at Parts Express, Amazon will work.

About the relays. Just so there is no confusion, the cube relays are different from the DRL module, but use the same socket. You already have a module plugged into the DRL socket.
I値l post pictures below to help explain.

It looks like your front run bay PCB is same as mine, but can稚 quite make out the number on yours. And, it might be wired closely to what mine is. I made up a fuse chart, which sits in the plastic file holder in the front run bay. I値l be glad to send files via DropBox or on a DVD, if you would like. If not familiar with Dropbox, I値l send an invite to you. When you have it on your PC, I値l send the link to my Monaco files, maybe 200 files.

10 years ago I modified my step cover to work with the key off by changing a couple of wires in the front run bay. At the time I posted it in Quick Tips...., but it is buried in all those pages. It is one of my Monaco files, in Word format with pictures.
We were able to change CaptJack1's wiring on his 08 Beaver Contessa, but not Perry's 08 Camelot as the socket I needed was occupied. And, then we ran out of time working on other coaches at QZ. But, there are other unused sockets available to use, so next time is see Perry, I値l have to remember to fix his.
What I知 saying is that yours might not be exactly like the guide I wrote about mine, but not a problem to change.

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