2011 Monaco

[bigdomino]

Anyone out there have a new one? Anyone considering buying one?

Steve__

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by bigdomino

Anyone out there have a new one? Anyone considering buying one?

Hi Steve, What I would like to find out is whether or not the MaxxForce engines are being installed in the new rigs! We've recently seen Press that International Truck & Engine (Navistar) will be providing their line of engines for use in Monaco RV LLC (Roadmaster Chassis) going forward.

One thing that new owners of these engines will appreciate is that there is no requirement to buy DEF or a Urea product to meet 2010 emissions and beyond.

[DennisZ]

Ii did a factory tour last month, and they are installing the maxxForce engines in some of the units. If you order a special built unit, you can specify which engine you want, either a Cummins or MaxxForce.

Dennis

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by DennisZ

If you order a special built unit, you can specify which engine you want, either a Cummins or MaxxForce.

Dennis, Thanks! I believe that's more info than we had. I'm wondering if they are exhausting the current supply of Cummins engines or are they actually buying new engines? The way the RV business works is JIT or "just in time" so I thought I would ask if they are ordering new Cummins and MaxxForce Engines. One product line with SCR and one without ... interesting!

[ramblin10]

My understanding is that they will go to Maxxforce as they use up remaining Cummins motors. They have built 5 units with Maxforce engines as pilot/test units. Before the year is over they will use the Maxx 7 (this is on a new product that is low profile and they will introduce end of July) The Maxx 10 will start in July units that are being built and then follow with the Maxx 13 as they use up Cummins ISLs. I believe this engine will be used on Endeavor, Diplomat, Scepter and Camelot. Eventually they will have all products on Non-urea maxxforce engines no option for 2010 urea Cummins.

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by ramblin10

My understanding is that they will go to Maxxforce as they use up remaining Cummins motors..

ramblin10, Thanks for the comeback! Learning more everyday is FUN!

[moisheh]

I would want to wait a year or so before using anything other than the Cummins. Remember the poor suckers who bought units with the MB power?? Are they still using the Allison with the Max force??The jury is still out on the non urea engines. Do you want to be science experiment. It may very well be a good system but contrary to the publicity it is not proven. There is a huge battle between the 2 theories and I would stick with the proven one for now. Both sides in this battle have a lot at stake and it is like a soap opera. Lots of BS and even lies from both sides.

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by Moisheh

I would want to wait a year or so before using anything other than the Cummins. Remember the poor suckers who bought units with the MB power??

The Power Of One Navistar has been in the market for many years whether it is over the road, defense, agriculture and now Monaco expects to take a lead role in the RV business. The benefit of buying a car now days is that everything over the top of the rubber in managed by the builder whether it is related to body, chassis or power train this more than anything is one of the biggest benefits from being a Monaco owner.

Monaco RV LLC using its parent MaxxForce Series of engines brings this synergy to its customers where Monaco will be a one stop shop where the coach, chassis and power train are completely within the control of the OE builder. MaxxForce 7, 10 and 13 appear to be the lineup that I have seen and that lineup covers a wide range of needs that RV buyers will require to power their new coaches.

The MaxxForce 7 is the standard engine for Workhorse W20D series of chassis which are very successful at Four Winds and Tiffin has announced production will start on its MF7 powered Breeze. Here you have two coach builders using the MaxxForce engine in front diesel applications. Winnebago Industries has it as a SKU in the event demand is more prevalent for front engine diesel for both FRED & the WnnD series chassis. Do not rule out the idea that an WCC R22/26 UFO chassis won’t make a comeback and be MF7 powered. More manufacturers will follow with front engine diesels solutions as the gas motors become dinosaurs.

Are they still using the Allison with the MaxxForce??

I expect that you already know that answer.

The jury is still out on the non urea engines. Do you want to be science experiment? It may very well be a good system but contrary to the publicity it is not proven. There is a huge battle between the 2 theories and I would stick with the proven one for now. Both sides in this battle have a lot at stake and it is like a soap opera. Lots of BS and even lies from both sides.

Well not exactly, the jury has come back in Moisheh and they have rendered a verdict and the court has ruled in favor of Navistar. Navistar Resolves NOx Dispute with EPA

What was found is that the SCR consortium set the rules and guidelines and made up the standard as they went along and the EPA signed off on it hook line and sinker. Not so fast, Navistar won in its ruling. An SCR equipped vehicle does not meet its own standard because the engine is allowed to continue to run in a non-compliant mode. AEGR on the other hand will always be compliant because it does not need a consumer added product to make it emission compliant. In its win, Navistar has leveled the playing field, either the engine meets the standard all the time or it doesn’t.

SCR is a good system for a very BIG reason and that is it can take a perfectly good 2007 Emission compliant engine which runs great and simply bolt on a solution that will make the engine 2010 emission compliant and I have to applaud that. I've seen it in person and the system was completely explained to me by a professional on 2 occasions and to how the thing works. I have no reason whatsoever to doubt those gentlemen or the system. The final exhaust product emerges as Water and Nitrogen. ya can't get any "Greener" that that!

AEGR is a good system for a very BIG reason and that is the engine will continue to be 100% emission control compliant without any consumer based intervention throughout its lifetime other than routine maintenance. The fact that the end user does not have to purchase an add on product to meet emissions is a plus and more RVers than not are going to sign on with that.

Monaco RV LLC customers will benefit because of a one-stop-shopping business practice that will be the new standard at Monaco because it is expected that everything can be serviced by the selling dealer. 10 years ago Workhorse implemented the 1st one-stop-shopping RV strategy where the selling dealer can fix everything in house, coach, chassis and power train. My dealer Arlington RV Supercenter in E. Greenwich, RI was an example of how this was supposed to work. Fix everything under one roof and indeed it was one-stop-shopping. On the other hand if you needed to replace a radiator cap on a competing gasser you had to take it to the chassis/power train shop.

Monaco RV LLC owners are going to be buying into a good company (Navistar) and I believe that the choices that they are going to have in front of them will be appreciated in the long term.

[bigdomino]

Great comments.

Sounds like we have a Navistar emplyee posting to this message. If so, great.

I am about to order a new motorhome. I have a 2008 Monaco Knight. It has been a good coach. Bought it from DeMartini in Ca. I am looking at a new Phaeton with the tag axle. Went to the factory a month ago. Also like the looks of the new Diplomat.

I really would like another Monaco, but I am very concerned about buying one. Concerned about support. Concerned Navistar will not be able to make the company successful. There are so many Monaco owners pissed about the way they were treated by the new company. I bought my Monaco from DeMartini in California. They will not sell new Monaco's. I have concern with this. They are a great dealer.

Don't want my message to be negative. Really torn as too which direction to move in. Also concerned about the price difference between the Diplomat and the Phaeton. Monaco being $30-50 K more.

Steve__

[moisheh]

Driver is not really an emloyeee but the Navistar vampire has bitten him and he is powerless. I will still stand by my comments. As for a one stop shop: On paper that is a great idea. The reality is that very few RV dealers can handle chassis work. The big boys like Lazy Days and a handfull of others have the expertise. But many are mom and pop operations and would never be able to handle a Diesel chassis with a GVW of say 40,000 lbs. You need a huge investement in tooling and a HD mechanic. One reads about RV dealers that give you appointments 3 months from today or refuses to work on your unit because you bought elsewhere. One would be better off with a Spartan or FL. At least they have dealers wilth real shops. I doubt there is an RV dealer in N.A. that can handle injection service or engine work. Better off at a Navistar dealer where there are professionals.

[ramblin10]

Steve,
I don't think you can go wrong buying either brand. The question is what one is best for you. You said that you are really torn but you only mentioned what you did not like about Monaco. Apparently there are things you like about the Monaco or dislike about the Tiffin to make you feel this way or you have really decided on the Tiffin
I would suggest you re-visit in person both coaches. Look at the floorplans (because they are different and you can't change this once it is built) Look at the fit and finish, features and over-all engineering and design. Absoloutly test drive both coaches do some emergency lane changes and take up some hills and deceide which coach you like to drive better. From there get your best difference price after your trade(monaco dealer may be able to give you more for your trade)- Then make your decision. What I am getting at is first make your decesion based on the tangible items that are real -Items that you can touch and feel. The intangibles are certainly important but both companies have positve and negative intangibles that are highly variable, out of our control, subject to change (good or bad), and subject to agruement because they are base on ones own feelings.
So what I am saying is look at the hardware first because there are very few guarentees about the intangibles. That being said if your own feelings of the Monaco past are keeping you from seeing the future then just rule them out and buy the Tiffin
Good luck and enjoy your new RV.

[DriVer]

Originally Posted by moisheh

Driver is not really an employee but the Navistar vampire has bitten him and he is powerless ....

Now that's funny right there! I am not an employee at all. I just hope that potential owners will be empowered by hearing both sides of the 2010 Emissions Story.

Better off at a Navistar dealer where there are professionals.

I can not argue that point. Navistar techs are going to be the very best asset to repair engine issues and Allison would be the best option for transmission issues. I do believe that Monaco RV owners will have just as effective and reliable resources as would Spartan and FCCC customers using International Service Centers. What the centers need to be sensitive to are that these rolling boxes are people's homes and they have to be treated in that manner when ever a customer shows up at the door.

[ShapeShifter]

Originally Posted by moisheh

Are they still using the Allison with the Max force??

Originally Posted by DriVer

I expect that you already know that answer.

You may expect what you wish. But could you possibly answer the question for those of us who don't already know that answer?

[DennisZ]

I believe the short answer is YES, all the units I saw with the MaxxForce were using the Allison

Dennis