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Old 09-28-2021, 02:46 PM   #1
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A/C schematic, cruise control pneumo switch...

Hi, all -

Just made a run from CO to WI, and... lots of stuff broke along the way. Kept me on the hop for sure, but I managed to fix most of it and get here. But there are a couple of things left over:

1) The A/C compressor clutch doesn't kick in when I put the A/C on - normal or max. I can trip it either directly or via the relay, at which point it works fine. The fan comes on when I turn the selector switch, and I've checked all the fuses front and back, so I'm suspecting either another pair of contacts on the switch or some kind of thermal control in the A/C system - but without a schematic, it's a bit of a pain to troubleshoot (even though I've got a fox-and-hound rig for tracing wires.) Would anyone here happen to have a schematic?

2) The cruise control no longer cuts out when I tap the brakes - although it will if I really stomp on them (found that out when the car in front of me decided to stop, for no visible reason at all, on a 75mph highway.) Since it got that way suddenly rather than gradually, and since it's not an all-out failure, I'm suspecting a piece of dirt that got blown into it... but I hesitate to pull it out without having a replacement on hand. There are two switches on the pneumo valves in the generator compartment, and since I'm by myself and didn't have anyone to hit the brakes while I check for continuity, I don't yet know which one it is (I'll recruit someone at the CG here, just haven't gotten around to it.) Anyway... does anyone know where I can order these things?

I'll note that many of these and other troubles possibly resulted from, or at least partially stem from, my domestic batteries kicking the bucket this summer - which I didn't realize until I got underway. Despite the alternator working just fine, one of the four 6V golf carts settles out to 0.7V (!), two others come in at 4.7, and only one of them shows 6.2V after a day's run... not very nice of them, since I've always fed them tasty distilled water, cleaned them off on a regular basis, coated the terminals in Vaseline and baking soda, and even dressed them in snazzy new 2-gauge cable recently. Oh well... that's the inanimate world for you; no gratitude. I'll be evicting them all in short order.

Can't blame the rear slide roller going out of adjustment or the exploding toilet flush valve on that, though (sprayed water in every direction while I was using the head... it was quite the Three Stooges moment, since I couldn't run outside to turn off the water with my pants around my ankles. Oh well; at least it was clean water.)

So much road fun, I can barely stand it!
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Old 09-28-2021, 02:53 PM   #2
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When you jumper the relay to turn on the AC compressor, is the AC blowing cold? As you probably know, if the AC refrigerant charge is low the compressor wont come on. If you are by-passing the low pressure cutoff switch for
too long you could damage the compressor as no oil is circulated (if the refrigerant is low).

On the Cruise not cutting out - step on the brake pedal normally (lightly) and see if the brake lights come on. It may be that you have to step hard because the brake light switch is out of adjustment. it is the brake light that turns off the cruise when you step on the pedal.
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*Monaco Wiring Diagrams https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
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Old 09-28-2021, 10:56 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by CountryB View Post
When you jumper the relay to turn on the AC compressor, is the AC blowing cold? As you probably know, if the AC refrigerant charge is low the compressor wont come on. If you are by-passing the low pressure cutoff switch for
too long you could damage the compressor as no oil is circulated (if the refrigerant is low).
Yep - it was nice and cold. I figure that whatever thermal circuit was being used, it would be out of the loop on the 'Max A/C' setting, so I just ran a jumper from the positive to the relay coil, and the A/C stayed on for the whole 4 or 5 hour trip. I do have an "octopus" and a few cans of refrigerant, but I don't think I need them; I'd estimate the vent temp as low 40s.

Thank you very much for the schematic! I should be able to have this figured out pretty quickly, now.

Quote:
On the Cruise not cutting out - step on the brake pedal normally (lightly) and see if the brake lights come on. It may be that you have to step hard because the brake light switch is out of adjustment. it is the brake light that turns off the cruise when you step on the pedal.
Oh - I'd heard (and having two switches on the brake air valve supports that idea) that the brake and the cruise are on two different switches/cut on at two different pressures. I'm just as happy to go with one being a problem - that would make my life easier.

It's dark right now, so that was an easy test: look at the passenger-side mirror and hit the brake. Nope, no lights. So that looks like it... the question is still where to find a replacement; I'm not at all familiar with pneumatic parts, their ratings, or where/how to look them up. If you happen to have more of a clue than I do, I'd appreciate a hint.
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:52 AM   #4
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Usually the brake light switch(es) are mounted to the back of the Treadle Valve (brake pedal). You can test these by checking for 12V on one side of the switch with key On, then step on brake pedal and see if you have 12V to the other terminal on the switch.

You can get a switch at almost any truck shop. I use "AnythingTruck" online. The one at the bottom of page 1 is the most common.
https://www.anythingtruck.com/SRCH.h...brake%20switch
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Old 09-29-2021, 12:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by CountryB View Post
Usually the brake light switch(es) are mounted to the back of the Treadle Valve (brake pedal). You can test these by checking for 12V on one side of the switch with key On, then step on brake pedal and see if you have 12V to the other terminal on the switch.

You can get a switch at almost any truck shop. I use "AnythingTruck" online. The one at the bottom of page 1 is the most common.
https://www.anythingtruck.com/SRCH.h...brake%20switch
Perfect - thank you!

This morning's results:

Good: the thermo switch on the air box is dead. There's power coming to it from the switch, the trinary seems to be happy with the refrigerant pressures, and a jumper across the terminals engages the clutch - so that's that. For future reference / anyone searching, it's on the passenger side at the bottom of the airbox, which is located on the front of the firewall - inside the generator compartment.



(Heck, it might even be fixable; I'll rip it apart and see.)

Not so good: there are four switches on that treadle valve - the two "normally closed" pancake types like the ones at AnythingTruck (and I'm saving that reference, looks super-useful!) and two (normally open) that look more like oil pressure sensors - and... all four are working. This implicates either wiring or the cruise control circuitry itself. And yes, the brake lights do come on when I press the pedal - I just didn't see it last night (too dim, I guess.)



Just based on the gauge and color of the wiring - unlike the normal coach wiring, all of them are white and very thin (16-18 gauge), just like the wires that go into the cruise control box - I'm going to say that those two are more likely to be involved. Troubleshooting continues, see our next exciting episode to find out if Batman and Robin survive...

Thanks again for the help so far!
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Old 09-29-2021, 06:12 PM   #6
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Update

So, following up: the thermostat can't be fixed; the capillary tube lost the gas that was in it, so it no longer expands/contracts with temperature. For anyone who needs to buy one, it's called an "Evans Tempcon Cold Control RV212093" or "Kenworth 1332 Thermostatic Switch". Meanwhile, I've bent a bit of wire into a jumper that fits quite nicely into the plug and takes care of it for now.

Spent some time digging into the brake treadle valve today; the two Nason switches I was focusing on are actually normally closed and wired in parallel, so both of them have to open to trip the cruise control off. Seems rather odd... they also only have 4.65 volts on the hot side, which makes me again suspect the wiring or the cruise control electronics. The wires go straight up into the plywood of the dash panel and are fixed in place with sealant, presumably meaning I'll find them if I pull the gauge panel. Not really looking forward to that, but without a schematic (and without knowing what it's supposed to be wired into, or where the cruise control electronics are), it's all about this kind of painful tracing. Anybody with a better clue than I currently have is welcome to chime in!
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Old 10-16-2021, 02:57 PM   #7
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Final wrap-up: for the cruise control, it turns out that the white wires running to the Nason switches (the type that has the red and black alligator clips on it in the pic above) were missing an inch or so of insulation each, way up in the darkness below the dash panel where I couldn't see them. Not chafed - it just looked like someone had swiped a knife along them and took a strip off each one. Very strange, since there's nothing mechanical up there to damage them... must have been that way from the factory, and something I did recently, or just movement from road vibration, brought them together. Since these switches are NC (normally closed), shorting the wires together would create a parallel path - so pushing the brake would open the switches but not the circuit.

I fished up a bit of slack from the wire closet by the driver's seat, pulled it into the space behind the dash and down through the hole toward the switches, then cut off the damaged portion and crimped new fittings onto the wire ends. The cruise control worked perfectly for the 1300+ mile trip home.

For the A/C, the thermostat is on its way - but the system worked just fine without it. Obviously, it ran at max all the time - but Illinois, Indiana, Tennessee, Kentucky, Georgia, and Florida didn't give me any reason to complain about too much cold air... I would have been quite happy with even more of it.
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Old 10-16-2021, 04:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceansailor View Post
Final wrap-up: for the cruise control, it turns out that the white wires running to the Nason switches (the type that has the red and black alligator clips on it in the pic above) were missing an inch or so of insulation each, way up in the darkness below the dash panel where I couldn't see them. Not chafed - it just looked like someone had swiped a knife along them and took a strip off each one. Very strange, since there's nothing mechanical up there to damage them... must have been that way from the factory, and something I did recently, or just movement from road vibration, brought them together. Since these switches are NC (normally closed), shorting the wires together would create a parallel path - so pushing the brake would open the switches but not the circuit.

I fished up a bit of slack from the wire closet by the driver's seat, pulled it into the space behind the dash and down through the hole toward the switches, then cut off the damaged portion and crimped new fittings onto the wire ends. The cruise control worked perfectly for the 1300+ mile trip home.
Nice find. Glad you got it fixed.

I have found several places on my Beaver/Monaco where wires were not tightly crimped from the factory and just pull out of the connector. So one of my troubleshooting steps now is to always give each wire a little tug at its connector/terminal-end.
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*SMC, Beaver, Monaco History, Problems https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbToxXYREK9YdBP08Jn
*Monaco Wiring Diagrams https://1drv.ms/f/s!AtvAXw_lfqbTm0WTuuNqpn9a8hCh
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:12 AM   #9
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Nice find. Glad you got it fixed.

I have found several places on my Beaver/Monaco where wires were not tightly crimped from the factory and just pull out of the connector. So one of my troubleshooting steps now is to always give each wire a little tug at its connector/terminal-end.
Oh, I'm totally with you. Whether from poor-quality work, age/corrosion, vibration, strain, or whatever other reasons, I never trust crimps - or bolt/nut/screw tightness - and check them as a matter of course when I'm working on something. Knowing just how hard you should pull takes a certain amount of "mechanic's feel" (it's quite a bit) - but it's worth developing. I also check my own crimps that way right after I've made them. Haven't managed to pull one out in years, but it's better to make sure...

Related moment from this past week: I bought some jumpers at a local shop, and the alligator clips came right off the ends with a slight tug when I tested them. The shop owner was NOT a happy puppy, especially after testing a couple of other jumper sets... I think he's going to have a few things to say to that vendor.
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