A new Amish cooling unit for Norcold 1200

[snowman1]

CountryB I got flamed on here a while back for the same answer I'm about to say again. Apparently hurt some DIY'ers feelings. It is a DIY job but on a scale of 1-10, 10 being the hardest, it's a 8, easy. Maybe a 9. We had ours installed 4-5 years ago professionally and the thing cools like nobody's business now, night and day difference. The shop had done over a hundred conversions and knew the ins and outs of these conversions. I don't. The key to these conversions is properly sealing up the cooling unit to the ice box, period. Do it wrong and the cooling unit has to work too hard and they eventually fail. Usually within a year or two. One gent who has posted over 25,000 times on this forum attempted the install himself to save a few hundred bucks and it failed within a year.

I have not read of one failure on this forum of an Amish unit failing that was properly done by pros. You can read on here until yours eyes hurt of failures installed by DIY'ers who don't know what they are doing. It is simply too big a job to have to do over. Hell, it takes three guys just to lift the fridge out and lay on the floor.

As far as ammonia or helium, it's your choice. Helium either wasn't an option when we purchased our unit or if it was, I wasn't made aware of it. The factory installs whatever you want. The pics posted at the beginning of this thread showing the Norcold and the Amish cooling units tell everything you need to know about the capabilities of these units. Why Norcold hasn't either bought these people out or licensed their product is beyond me.

Our Norcold would have been pitched in the trash if it wasn't for the Amish conversion. I doubt we'll ever swap in a residential fridge, now.

[nothermark]

FWIW the cooling units contain ammonia in either case. The choice is between hydrogen and helium for the helper gas. Hydrogen is cheaper but flammable. Helium is not flammable.

[Monaco Wolfy]

From what I've read, the leaking ammonia on the Norcold units happen as a result of overheating. It weakens the metal and especially the welds. That's when they can catch fire. I don't recall the name of the chemical in every cooling unit, but it prevents rust from starting within the pipes of the unit. If the unit overheats, it turns it into crystals and no longer protects the metal. If the Norcold units had been sized properly and a safety switch install like the ARP, No one would be replacing units today. The ARP switch turns off the fridge about 5 degrees prior to causing any type of damage. The Norcold recall switch doesn't do that. It turns the unit off after the damage is already done. Over heating is almost always caused by a unlevel situation, like pulling into a roadside attraction in the mountains, or just driving up or down hill grades. The ARP switch will then turn it back on after it has cooled down. So, no more worries about the fridge if your un level. The switch will protect it. And your food won't be ruined. It always comes back on before that happens. That why I went with the Amish ammonia unit. No need to worry about damage anymore, thanks to the ARP safety switch. But just for backup, we all know that electronics can fail, I also installed a automatic fire extinguisher. The fridge works awesome now. Set on 5.

[Doug Simpson]

Originally Posted by CountryB

I'm curious about this upgrade. Can someone tell me if this is a DIY job or needs to go to a professional?

Do you have to remove/evacuate the ammonia to to this upgrade?

Is the refrigerator then charged with "helium" or "ammonia" (or will either work) and how do you charge it - and know how much to put in?

This does not sound like a DIY job.

Do you have someone one come to coach (like an AC company) and charge it, or does it come pre-assembled and charged up, and you just bolt it in?

I did this myself, except for hefting it out of and into the fridge box, which was the most difficult part. My 6'4" son-in-law helped me get the Norcold 1200 out, and my daughter helped me get it back in.

I spent $1025 on the unit, $30 total on the 2 new fans, $160 on shipping to Central Texas. I then boughtried a new propane burner too but I don't recall the cost. Like others, I got this from JC Refrigeration in Indiana. They seem to me to have an excellent product as well as excellent customer support, they were friendly and helpful which is rare.

There is no need to charge or discharge the unit. The new cooling unit is completely a closed system. Basically you pull the old unit, lay it flat on the floor face down, unscrew essentially the entire back of the old unit, and attach the new cooling unit which really is a new entire back of the unit. Now that I think of it, I had my son-in-law's help removing the old unit and putting on a new one. It weighs 40 pounds probably, maybe not even that much. But it is a bit cumbersome, about 6 inches deep, the width of the fridge, but maybe 18 inches shorter than the fridge.

The most difficult part is figuring out the wiring, because norcold did not make it easy. JC Refrigeration has a comprehensive video showing installation of the new cooling unit and reattaching of all of the wires. You have to have the video handy while doing the work, and you need to watch it several times before you get the gist of what needs to be done. But it's pretty easy overall. It was a bit messy, so take care to protect your floor finish, carpet or whatever, as you will be removing old, crumbly hardened caulk.

We went nearly a full year with our Norcold on the fritz with a temporary refrigerator in the back. Had I known that this would be so simple to install, I would have done it a lot sooner.

I am fairly handy and pretty good about following directions. I have rebuilt a couple of motorcycles and engines. Some folks might not find this simple, but really it's not out of reach if you have time and inclination. JC Refrigeration will help you out if you get stuck. Go to the JC Refrigeration site, watch videos, and you'll have a pretty good idea of how it is done.Videos | JC Refrigeration

Doug

[broadrun]

I keep coming back to this thread and re-reading all the posts to talk myself into having this done. I think it's finally worked. Planning on having it done at JC. Someone mentioned it only took them one morning to finish the install. Lastly, I saw a post from someone who had recently (in the last 2-3 years) done the Samsung residential installs and the refer wasn't working properly anymore so I've dropped that idea from consideration.

[Moira]

Hi everybody,
I am so glad that this thread is open for me to reply. I am pretty upset right now because I have to check what someone else did four years ago.

The good thing is I have an Amish cooling unit installed. It was installed by Iron Horse in Texas. After watching the videos on how to install it, I found that I have an extra piece of wood that nobody talked about, blocking the upper part of the back of the frig from the exterior vent.

So if you are standing outside the rv and looking up into the vent behind the frig, all I see is a nice big piece of wood that has been careful cut to fit up there horizontally across the whole back of the frig. This would seem to me to block all the outside air from getting to the cooling unit And of course I couldn't check for dirt or birds nests in the fins because the whole 3/4 of the top of the frig is hidden behind this piece of wood.

What is this piece of wood doing there? And no my frig is not working, which brings me here. I am currently waiting for the frig to adjust with the thermistor disconnected before I really lose it.

PS My Monaco Signature has a refrigerator roof vent.

For some reason I can't upload a picture tonight, it keeps failing. But just make believe you are short and looking up in the back vent all I can see is some white coils, about 3 rows, disappearing behind a nice big piece of wood that is cut to fit all across the whole back of the frig, like a shelf.

[FL420]

Originally Posted by Moira

Hi everybody,
I am so glad that this thread is open for me to reply. I am pretty upset right now because I have to check what someone else did four years ago.

The good thing is I have an Amish cooling unit installed. It was installed by Iron Horse in Texas. After watching the videos on how to install it, I found that I have an extra piece of wood that nobody talked about, blocking the upper part of the back of the frig from the exterior vent.

So if you are standing outside the rv and looking up into the vent behind the frig, all I see is a nice big piece of wood that has been careful cut to fit up there horizontally across the whole back of the frig. This would seem to me to block all the outside air from getting to the cooling unit And of course I couldn't check for dirt or birds nests in the fins because the whole 3/4 of the top of the frig is hidden behind this piece of wood.

What is this piece of wood doing there? And no my frig is not working, which brings me here. I am currently waiting for the frig to adjust with the thermistor disconnected before I really lose it.

PS My Monaco Signature has a refrigerator roof vent.

For some reason I can't upload a picture tonight, it keeps failing. But just make believe you are short and looking up in the back vent all I can see is some white coils, about 3 rows, disappearing behind a nice big piece of wood that is cut to fit all across the whole back of the frig, like a shelf.

I just had a lot of work done at Iron Horse. Their paint and body man did very good work but the other things they did were subpar. They do things the way they want to do them ignoring your specific instructions if you let them get away with it. Check your bill very carefully for accuracy before paying. I was overcharged almost $500 that I caught and probably more given the things they worked on which promptly failed.
Regarding your refrigerator issue, baffling is very important for proper cooling airflow. I had my installation done at JC Refrigeration in Shipshewana, IN who knows how to do it right. If you can take pictures and send them to J.R. at JC Refrigeration he may be able to tell you if the baffling looks right.

[Ivylog]

Moria, what you describe is a baffle that was added to force the air to go through the fins, not bypassing the fins along the outside wall.

[Moira]

Oh I hope this works, all the air is being blocked. It is completely fitted from the outside wall and end to end, all the way to the coils. You can put your hand between the wood and coils and it goes further up like they built a box going all the way to the top. That is only a guess, we can only feel a hands length up.




I watched the installation video and the little round thing in the center of that pic looks like the fan switch which is supposed to be mounted up between the coils. The pic shows it is mounted at the very bottom of the frig below the control board.

Now the big question is do the fans that I can't see suck the air up or are they blowing the air down.

My pic files were probably too big last night.

thanks

[MSHappyCampers]

Originally Posted by nothermark

Just curious. Since you were worried about fire why didn't you go for helium instead of hydrogen in the unit? That solves your fire problem.

I was told that it's not the hydrogen that burns but the ammonia, which you still have with the helium. I think it was Paul at ARP that told me that. He said that with the helium you are much more likely to have a problem with leaks. He said they use helium in piping systems to test for leaks!

[BillJinOR]

Moria
Your photo shows the correct way to baffle the back, it is NOT. Blocking the flow , it is forcing the flow up the center of those round tubes just as it should. If you allow air up the back wall where the baffle is it does no cooling. Looks to me like somebody knew what they were doing. If you have problems it’s something else I would think.

I see The safety device is still connected (Square box with wires and red light when tripped) JC tossed mine out said it wasn’t needed. Don’t know what the disk you show is .. but if it’s the fan switch it needs to be on the upper part of the tubing ( above that baffle )
The fans blow up .. hot air rises .. the fans just assist that, not fight it. The fans are above the baffle also , on top of those large wrapped tubes blowing on the condenser louvers at the very top

[Moira]

Thank you al,

The installation video did not mention anything about baffling the entire cavity behind the frig.

The only baffling they showed was at the very end of the 1200 Norcold video for installations on refrigerators that are mounted on a slide with no roof vent. In that case they direct the air out the side of the rv. At the top of the frig.

can anyone post a pic of their installation for the nor cold through the exterior vent?

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by BillJinOR

Moria
Your photo shows the correct way to baffle the back, it is NOT. Blocking the flow , it is forcing the flow up the center of those round tubes just as it should. If you allow air up the back wall where the baffle is it does no cooling. Looks to me like somebody knew what they were doing. If you have problems it’s something else I would think.

I see The safety device is still connected (Square box with wires and red light when tripped) JC tossed mine out said it wasn’t needed. Don’t know what the disk you show is .. but if it’s the fan switch it needs to be on the upper part of the tubing ( above that baffle )
The fans blow up .. hot air rises .. the fans just assist that, not fight it. The fans are above the baffle also , on top of those large wrapped tubes blowing on the condenser louvers at the very top

RV MFG FAILED to follow Norcold Installation Instructions....clearances are WAY too large hence the 'baffle' to properly direct airflow/draft.
From lower vent UP THRU absorber tubing then across condenser fins at top out out roof vent


Fans are controlled by a thermostat attached to condenser fin at top....turn fans ON when condenser FIN temp reaches 130*F and back off when condenser FIN temp drops below 115*F
Fans PULL air in via lower vent and then BLOW air up/out top roof vent enhancing the natural draft/airflow
(Especially when clearances are too large)





Recall Box clipped onto absorber tube uses a temp sensor attached to burner stack.......if TRIPS ALL DC if sensor detects temps in excess of 700*F

Norcolds band-aid fix.


Here is an Installation Manual so you can check out the clearances recommended and the baffling required if clearances are not correct
https://www.thetford.com/wp-content/...-Manual-AC.pdf

[Moira]

I found my model installation 120X-IM and it does appear that from what I can see it was baffled adequately. I do believe it could use a fan to draw air in or blow up the coils to help it.

If the burner doesn't make noise, then I can hear the fans. There is no way for me to see if the fans are working.

I am going to go for a heating element and see what happens.