Community Forums

Robert T · 06-08-2011, 07:39 PM

About a year ago I replaced my air filter on my 2004 Endeavor with an AFE Filter from Advanced Flow Engineering that can be cleaned and reused.

I had my reservations at first but glad I did elect to use the AFE filter.

I have noticed an increase in turbo output ,more low end power an increase in fuel mileage of 1/10 per gallon.

The filter is a little smaller in diameter but the rubber ends are the same size as the OEM filter. The new filter has better air flow BUT it does this by having less micron filtering abilites.This will allow more wear on the engine. A well kept ISC will last 500,00 miles but now with not as effective air filter the engine may last only 400,000 miles.I doubt I will even own the coach past 150,000 miles.So the benifits of this filter I would prefer. Cost of the filter is about 25% higher than the paper filters but will last for ever if cleaned as per instructions provided.

moisheh · 06-09-2011, 05:22 AM

I would never install one of those on a diesel. With the volumes of air consumed you are allowing LOTS of dirt to enter the engine. I dont know where you got those figures but I doubt they are realistic. I can never understand why RV's will spend a fortune on overpriced synthetic oils yet install something that has the potential to damage your engine. That is my opinion and it is your engine. Do you know of any large fleet( Werner, Swift,UPS) that use these filters? If the fleet manager thought they could improve mileage every truck would be equipped with one.

spike45 · 06-09-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisheh

I would never install one of those on a diesel. With the volumes of air consumed you are allowing LOTS of dirt to enter the engine. I dont know where you got those figures but I doubt they are realistic. I can never understand why RV's will spend a fortune on overpriced synthetic oils yet install something that has the potential to damage your engine. That is my opinion and it is your engine. Do you know of any large fleet( Werner, Swift,UPS) that use these filters? If the fleet manager thought they could improve mileage every truck would be equipped with one.

Moisheh,

Thanks for making my point for me! I work with really major truck fleets in the US; Swift, TMC, Schneider, Penske, Ryder, Averitt, FedEx Freight. None of them use those air cleaners. While many of them trade at around 450,000 miles many more run to over 800K miles. Use of that type of air cleaner is a risk that outweighs the benefit.

Those filters like the AFE, K&N do provide more air flow. There is no doubting that. As Ted stated they do so by having less restrictive media that cannot efficiently remove dust. Paper air filters commonly operate at an overall efficiency of 99.800%. K&N brags they are 96% efficient. Look at it like this: for each 100 ounces of dust going into the air inlet, 4 ounces pass through the air cleaner, 96 are trapped. An engine the size of an ISL, ISC, ISB, CAT C7, C9 will be dusted by ingesting just 5 ounces of dust.

All air cleaner elements will pass dust when first installed. Filters are designed to acquire a "dust cake" to increase the initial efficiency from 99.3% up to the 99.8% number. It takes about 25 engine hours at highway speeds to get to that point. In that time most dust that will pass the media occurs then. Changing air filters before the restriction gauge indicated 22 inches water is aiding the dust ingestion picture.

Ted, hope you reconsider what your actions show to the next owner of your MH.

alan1 · 06-10-2011, 04:12 PM

On sort of the same subject--What effect does age have on the air filter? Mine is 4 years with the vacuum gauge showing less than 8. I was at Spartan on the chassis and had the 44 point check performed. They said since the air filter was over 3 years old it needed to be changed, I declined the service. I don't want to pull the filter and disturb the dust cake to look at it. What have others found after removing the filter that had some years on it?

observer · 06-10-2011, 08:50 PM

Alan,
The comment I have seen about the filter age is that the media/glue in the filter can breakdown after 3 years or so.

Twomed · 06-11-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by observer

Alan,
The comment I have seen about the filter age is that the media/glue in the filter can breakdown after 3 years or so.

Plus moisture (inevitable) will grow mold and the paper comes apart. Two years max is recommended. Mine usually looks cruddy enough at two years that I am happy to change it, and I have the high mounted intake.

Triker56 · 06-11-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1

On sort of the same subject--What effect does age have on the air filter? Mine is 4 years with the vacuum gauge showing less than 8. I was at Spartan on the chassis and had the 44 point check performed. They said since the air filter was over 3 years old it needed to be changed, I declined the service. I don't want to pull the filter and disturb the dust cake to look at it. What have others found after removing the filter that had some years on it?

Yep!! the glue starts falling apart after 2 years in those paper OEM filters. And then the turbo starts ingesting paper.

If you want to use one long term than the K&N Heavy duty Filter that just lets some extra dust through may be better for you.

alan1 · 06-11-2011, 02:57 PM

Thanks to all, guess I will be changing mine out.

spike45 · 06-12-2011, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alan1

On sort of the same subject--What effect does age have on the air filter? Mine is 4 years with the vacuum gauge showing less than 8. I was at Spartan on the chassis and had the 44 point check performed. They said since the air filter was over 3 years old it needed to be changed, I declined the service. I don't want to pull the filter and disturb the dust cake to look at it. What have others found after removing the filter that had some years on it?

The shelf life of a Fleetguard air filter product is 5 years maximum. Shelf as we define it is not installed and in inventory at a distributor.

spike45 · 06-12-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twomed

Plus moisture (inevitable) will grow mold and the paper comes apart. Two years max is recommended. Mine usually looks cruddy enough at two years that I am happy to change it, and I have the high mounted intake.

Who recommends 2 years? Oil change company? RV company? OEM engine companies recommend changing air filters on a restriction basis. The top limit is 25 inches water. Few ever attain that before the filter becomes old. Heavily soaking the media with ingested rain water will shorten the life as it causes the media fiber (cellulose) to swell creating more restriction. Run the air filter to at least 18 inches water. If you can attain 20 inches change then.

Do not change based on looks of the media or time. Restriction is the only true method that shows used life and remaining.

spike45 · 06-12-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triker56

Yep!! the glue starts falling apart after 2 years in those paper OEM filters. And then the turbo starts ingesting paper.

I have been in the filter business for over 21 years. This is news to me that the "glue" falls apart. The "glue" you refer to is plastisol, a thermo-set plastic. It is durable stuff. If the paper is not wetted by ingestion rain or snow, the media fiber also will last a very long time.

If you have sucked paper into the turbo, then you must be referring to a Farr Ecolite or similar where an expanded metal outer wrap is not used. Then you might be right. Other air filters have a metal inner and outer wrap for the purpose of keeping the media, no matter how wet it gets, from being ingested due to high differential pressure.

Snowman 1 · 06-12-2011, 09:47 PM

Robert T,

I've got an AFE air filter on our coach and I haven't lost one moment of sleep over it. You are not, I repeat, not allowing lots of dirt in your engine. Give me a break. K&N, AFE and dozens of other companies have sold millions of these filters to car and truck enthusiasts. There is not one thing wrong with them. My daily driver Honda Accord has had a K&N air filter on it from day one and 325,000 miles later still going strong. Just be sure to clean and oil it per the manufactures instructions.

Twomed · 06-13-2011, 12:51 AM

Ok Gary I'll bite....what's wrong with Farr Ecolites that comes stock on Monaco's and a bunch of other coaches? And with some internal pics and specs which I couldn't find on the Cummins site, what makes the AH8503 worth 33% more in cost than the Eco series?
Thanks

spike45 · 06-13-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman 1

Robert T,

I've got an AFE air filter on our coach and I haven't lost one moment of sleep over it. You are not, I repeat, not allowing lots of dirt in your engine. Give me a break. K&N, AFE and dozens of other companies havesold millionsof these filters to car and truck enthusiasts. There is not one thing wrong with them. My daily driver Honda Accord has had a K&N air filter on it from day one and 325,000 miles later still going strong. Just be sure to clean and oil it per the manufactures instructions.

Snowman,

Lighten up!

If you are happy with your choice that is fine. It is never my intent to scare people. It is my intent to inform and provide knowledge based on experience and data from my profession. In other forums the mention of the truth pertaining to K&N and similar air filters always brings out at least one who has a response like yours.....are you on the Dodge and Ford diesel forums, too? .....just kidding.

With the American truck market so competitive, truck companies will go to extremes to save maintenance costs like extending oil drain intervals way out. But they do know that there is no savings when the engine can ingest dust thus requiring an overhaul. If there was any merit to that kind of product, then there would be a vast number of that type of air filter sold.

Sales are highest with people who want increased air flow and do not know how you can get more air from the same size package. What does the average person know about air filters? ZIP! Go to any oil change place and they will assault your ears with the story that "you don't want an air filter that look like THIS!, do you?" People then buy a new one when the old one is more likely hitting its prime at efficiency.