All 12VDC lost--2000 Dynasty--NOT salesman switch

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by nodine

Van,

Looking at the wiring diagram you posted I see a number of what appears to be fuses in the 150 and 80 amp range. In the lower right section of the schematic there is an 80 amp fuse that supplies power to what looks like the salesman solenoid and the output of the solenoid goes to the Domestic Fuse Panel. I know you are a smart guy and have a good feel for how things work. If you connect the negative lead of your meter to the negative post of the house battery system and use the positive lead of the meter to measure then both sides of the 80 amp fuse should indicate the voltage of the house battery system. Likewise, you should be able to measure the house voltage on both sides of the solenoid. From there the schematic shows a 2 GA cable supplying all power to the Domestic Fuse panel. If you have power there then the next thing I would do is leave the negative lead connected to the negative post of the house battery system and using a long wire connect the positive lead of the meter to the positive supply point in the Domestic Fuse panel. If you have house voltage there that would tell me you have and open ground somewhere. The fact that you have a location that measures the sum of the house and chassis batteries says there is a problem in the grounding system. Did you forget to connect a ground somewhere? Installing a new inverter could be causing this problem if the old inverter somehow supplied a ground connection that is now missing in the new inverter.

Bob

I'm about to head out and check some more things. Those are some good ideas you suggested to check.

I've spent the last 1.5 hours trying to learn to annotate a .pdf and wasted the time. I'll just try to describe it in words.

The thing that is labeled "80A" feeding the "Domestic Power Solenoid" is a Klixon self-resetting circuit breaker. There are four of them in a vertical row. They seem to be working OK.

The missing ground scenario makes sense. I'll check that.

Odd, is it not, that the 4/0 cable from "House Power" supplies a 150A Klixon that apparently feeds the four Klixon's in a vertical row and two of them are in parallel to supply (apparently) 300A to the inverter. Not well labeled is that the bottom terminal of that 150A Klixon is connected to a heavy solid copper buss bar that physically extends behind the Battery Boost solenoid to feed the four vertical Klixon's? ONE 150A Klixon, feeding two 150A Klixon's in parallel, and the two in parallel are intended to feed 300A to the inverter? Makes no sense.

Thanks, Bob.

[Libero]

P whittle

Good point, I was thinking this also. I believe "ve" means the "-" side which should be at "Ground" potential. If you measure "0" volts between those terminals, then validate the resistance is also "0" and of course "0" to chassis ground.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Libero

Agree with Sanford. Suggest you look very closely anywhere you measure 26.2 VDC. Find the reason for this. IMHO this is a red flag issue. Good luck.

Agreed. And it points toward that scenario of losing a ground somewhere. That is about the only way you can get the chassis and coach batteries to be in series and give 25VDC. Thanks!

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by nodine

Van,

Forgive me but I am getting old. I went back and re-read your post and you stated that you do have House power on the right side of the solenoid supplying power to the domestic fuse panel. It is starting to look more and more like a ground is missing. If you still have the old inverter investigate how it was wired and if it is possible a ground connection was being supplied that is missing with the new inverter. Heck, if you are willing to think outside the box, using a large inline fuse for safety, run a 10 ga wire from the negative post of the house battery system to the negative input to the domestic fuse panel and see what happens.

Bob

Good idea. I'm going to run that long ground wire just for the meter to see if I actually do have +12VDC at the Domestic Fuse Panel. That would mean it is a grounding issue for sure. Thanks, Bob!

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by dadej

Van

Did you say the numbers were working on the radio? The power to make the numbers work comes thru the kill switch. I had intermitent problems IE no radio numbers, no map light,no power to 12 volt lights and no dash fans.
After checking everywhere I found the solinoid that the kill switch powers was closing but sometimes not good enough. My solution was turn the switch on and off many times in a row.Everything works now. Come summer I will delete that solinoid. Keep on looking and you will find the problem.

I THINK the "kill switch" you are referring to is the one inside the coach that powers the Domestic Power Solenoid. That switch is commonly called the "Salesman Switch" on this forum and others. I have bypassed the solenoid that switch powers, so I'm sure that is not the problem in this case. I appreciate your help, however. Thanks.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by pwhittle

Van,

I'm thinking ground issues too.

What do you read between the -ve terminals of the chassis and house batteries? Should be 0V.

What about between the -ve terminal on the chassis battery and the Frame and the Inverter ground. Should also be 0V.

Paul

Paul,

I think you and Bob have probably nailed it. I think I have a ground issue somewhere. I'm going to do the checks you suggested and also check to see if there actually IS +12VDC going to my Domestic Fuse Panel, but I am missing a ground.

I think I worked on this in the cold and wet so long yesterday, I got "brain fuzz". Heading back out there now...

[Dennis_K]

Your batteries are wired wrong, that's why you are seeing the 26 volts. It is going to be hard to explain as there are many ways to run the cables. Just keep in mind that you are building two 12v battries by connecting two 6v batteries in series then connecting those two 12v batteries together in parallel. In your picture you seem to be connecting all 4 6v batteries in series which will make 24+ volts.

[Alan Wilson]

Originally Posted by Dennis_K

Your batteries are wired wrong, that's why you are seeing the 26 volts. It is going to be hard to explain as there are many ways to run the cables. Just keep in mind that you are building two 12v battries by connecting two 6v batteries in series then connecting those two 12v batteries together in parallel. In your picture you seem to be connecting all 4 6v batteries in series which will make 24+ volts.

Any time I am removing batteries or disassembling anything I take out my camera or phone and take a whole bunch of pictures. My memory just isn't what it used to be and those pictures have saved my bacon many times. And even then I have overlooked some wiring details but I was able to zoom up enough to see my mistake. I agree with Dennis in that there is a battery issue.


Thanks,

Alan

2001 HR Scepter 38PBD 330 Cummins

[palehorse89]

I liked/saw on here once where someone used a white paint marker, Start with the first post, one "dot" on the cable, and one "dot" on the battery, by the post.......and then just move onto the next post and mark with 2 dots..........Pictures/diagram also...

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Dennis_K

Your batteries are wired wrong, that's why you are seeing the 26 volts. It is going to be hard to explain as there are many ways to run the cables. Just keep in mind that you are building two 12v battries by connecting two 6v batteries in series then connecting those two 12v batteries together in parallel. In your picture you seem to be connecting all 4 6v batteries in series which will make 24+ volts.

Dennis, it might look that way, but the batteries are wired correctly. The final voltage across the negative and positive cables going to the coach is 12VDC. Thanks, though--I'm sure that is a common mistake.

[YC1]

You are assuming you have no 12 volts inside and have not measured it. Loss of lights does not mean loss of 12 volts and as other have suggested it is likely a ground wire dropped in the process of installing new batteries. I can thing of some weird ways to get 24+ volts but won't digress.


Sometimes you can use a 110 volt extension cord and use your probe on the ground lead so you can wander around and take measurements. I tired of doing that on my rv and have made a permanent ground reference point and have a couple of long jumper wires I can plug in.


If you have a 12 volt test light or meter (I prefer a test light at this point), run a good piece of wire through a window for a ground. Pop open any light fixture and use the test light. If the light comes on bright you have a bad ground, if it comes on dimly and the light you are testing you are now in series with that bulb and you still have a bad ground.

[YC1]

I panicked a bit looking at your battery connections and then drew a schematic basing the hookup on the stickers on each battery. Seems they indeed are connected ok.

[CrazyKnight]

Van,

I agreed with the wrong battery wiring at first. Thank goodness for the zoom feature on my computer.

Ok what I would do to KISS. I know you have done this but start form ZERO and work forward. Isolate the systems, disconnect the chassis (engine battery)
ground wire...then measure the voltage at the Battery positive stud..? What do you get ?

THAT 26+ VOLTS bothers me.

I think in everything you have done there is a bad ground somewhere like others before me have said. If you have 13.5 volts out to the "domestic panel" from the bypassed salesman solenoid. Follow your own idea and take a fused, say 15 amp, wire directly from that solenoid to your "domestic panel" input side. TEST it on the positive and the negative...run the wire directly from your battery bank positive and negative. Do you hAVE 13.5 volts now on the output side of the panel ? and in which hook up + or - run ?

BRB !

[deSanford]

Is there 12.6 VDC in series with the house batteries to = 26.2 VDC? Sanford