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Old 12-21-2014, 12:52 PM   #29
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Van

I just looked at your battery picture again and it looks like there is a red wire not connected on the right side of the pic. Not certain of the relevance here but it does make one wonder what that wire is for.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:29 PM   #30
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Solved!

I think several of you had the right idea. Bob Nodine (I think) posted it first. I had lost the major ground supplying ALL coach 12VDC. I had measured the +12VDC input at the 12VDC fuse panel and got nothing. But I was using the ground buss bar in the panel for the other meter lead. I had checked and re-checked all the battery grounds, but that +26VDC I got seemed to confirm a ground was lost and I was reading house and chassis batteries in series because of it (Sanford had that idea, too). After Bob's suggestion (and later Myron's and Paul's) to run an additional ground wire from the NEGATIVE BATTERY POST to use to check the 12VDC domestic fuse panel, it showed I indeed had the +12VDC, but no ground.

Lots of interesting tidbits I picked up, but I'm in a hurry to get back to the fridge project, so bottom line--it was the inverter wiring. I had my son install the inverter for me because it was in such a booger of a place I was having trouble with the required contortions--might be leftover damage from changing those bushings, Paul! I was replacing a Trace Engineering MSW RV2012 with a Xantrex PSW 3012. Although Trace essentially renamed themselves Xantrex, the 12VDC wiring on the two units was different. On the RV2012, there were three identical, heavy studs for 12VDC. There was POSITIVE (red), NEGATIVE (black), AND CHASSIS GROUND (green). Each had a 4/0 cable going to it. But internally, on the RV2012, the BLACK and GREEN studs were internally bonded with a huge, heavy buss bar. The new inverter had only two large studs for POSITIVE (red) and NEGATIVE (black). Although the new inverter had a CHASSIS GROUND terminal, it was intended for perhaps a #12 wire. My son had connected the previous 4/0 CHASSIS GROUND to the small terminal on the new inverter. Connecting both the 4/0 BLACK ground cables to the NEGATIVE on the inverter cured it.

I'm a bit puzzled why there were two 4/0 grounds in the coach, but Trace must have specified them and Monaco obliged. I'm curious as to where the two 4/0 ground cables terminate in the rear of the coach, but don't have time to check it out.

It also appeared to me that there was no fuse in the line going to the inverter. But Craig told me that his fuse was behind a panel in the cargo bay, and not in the Rear Run Bay where one might expect to find it. I have not verified that on this coach, but I'm betting he is correct.

Moral of the story is that since Monaco's have the unusual trait of wiring any number of devices PERMANENTLY to +12VDC and switching the GROUND to turn the device on and off---always use a supplemental ground when you are tracing what you think is lost power. Thanks to Bob, Myron, Paul and others for that idea.

One curious thing I found which had no bearing on the real problem other than to confuse me further, was that my KILL SWITCHES are labeled incorrectly. Cut the DOMESTIC kill switch and the dash instruments go dead. Cut the CHASSIS kill switch and all the lights go out in the coach. A meticulous guy like Bob would get under there and re-wire them...I'm going to make new labels!!

Thanks for your quick responses, everyone. Now, I'm back to feverishly working to get ready to leave for Quartzite!! If I'd had an Atwood furnace under my fridge, I could not use the Samsung. But since it is a Suburban furnace with ZERO required bottom clearance, and it is mounted on 2x4's on edge, I can lower it 3.5 inches. Still just barely makes it...but it does.

Back to work! Thanks, everyone!
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:39 PM   #31
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Van,

Glad you got the problem solved. I know you are running a tight schedule to get ready for Q. Maybe when I was a little younger I would correct the wiring on the two kill switches, but these days a re-label sounds good to me.

Bob
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Old 12-21-2014, 03:06 PM   #32
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All's well that ends well..........Sanford
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:26 AM   #33
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I just replaced my Trace charger/inverter and found that I didn't have the necessary 12vdc to run things. After a lot of head scratching and measuring I also decided it was a ground problem. I downloaded the Trace/Zantrex manual and a light went off. The ground I had removed from the left side of the old unit was the problem. As a test I ran a small jumper from the old green ground lead and connected it to the Minus battery terminal of the new charger/inverter. Everything came alive. The jumper has now been replaced with a piece of 0000 to keep it all correct. Oh what fun in a confined space!
Good luck, good health and safe travels!
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:35 AM   #34
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FWIW, as I understand it, the way Trace had the setup the way it was is that there was supposedly an internal shunt between the grounds in order to measure the ground currents. I would also guess that they felt that running the 0000 leads + and - directly between the battery and charger/inverter was more efficient than using a chassis ground connection. I second Sanford's comment.
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Old 12-27-2014, 09:25 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeltoneMagoo View Post
FWIW, as I understand it, the way Trace had the setup the way it was is that there was supposedly an internal shunt between the grounds in order to measure the ground currents. I would also guess that they felt that running the 0000 leads + and - directly between the battery and charger/inverter was more efficient than using a chassis ground connection. I second Sanford's comment.
Doug, you are exactly correct...the older Trace/Xantrex had an internal huge shunt connecting the "Chassis Ground" and "Battery Negative" terminals. On a new Xantrex installation, you much connect the cable previously going the the green "Chassis Ground" to the "Battery Negative" terminal. You end up with two heavy cables connected to the "Battery Negative", and cannot fit the original safety cover to them, but since it is the ground post, it matters less. My two cables are installed at 90* to one another. When I have time, I'll cut another opening in the negative safety cover and reinstall it.
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