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Old 11-01-2014, 10:34 AM   #1
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Biodiesel/biomass diesel blends

After spending time phoning several Flying J and Pilot stations near the intersection of I-81 and I-77 in North Carolina yesterday my wife informed me that she was told that one of the Flying J's had regular #2 diesel. To make a long story short we stopped ,no regular #2 diesel only what they refer to as bio-mass blend, they had put the stickers on their pumps 2 days earlier. We then checked the Pilot across the highway and they had no stickers on their pumps so she went inside and sure enough they were selling the bio-mass blend without stickers warning so on their pumps. My question ,are stations /truck stops not required by law to post stickers on their pumps if their fuel contains bio-mass/biodiesel blends? . Also is there any way to find out ahead of time weather or not truck stops sell regular #2 diesel fuel. Phoning does not work as most of the employees who answer the phones do not have a clue what they are selling nor apparently do they really care. This is not the first time she has been given the wrong answer as it has happened numerous times before. It is becoming more and more difficult to find diesel that does not have the bio blends. the manufacturer of our engine requires that fuels not have more than 5% of these blends be used, yet any pump stickers I have seen say from 5 to 20 % , What do all of the other Navistar engine owners out there use in your fuel tanks? I think Pilot/flying J stations are getting careless and don't really care what RV'ers think anymore . Maybe they have too much business. Thus ends my rant for today. Any comments or answers will be greatly appreciated......Alan
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Old 11-01-2014, 03:02 PM   #2
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I only stop at Pilot and Flying J and I can't remember seeing this before.
Now I don't stop at the RV island, I go to the truck island. Maybe that's why I haven't seen this.
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Old 11-01-2014, 03:58 PM   #3
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We go mostly to the truck islands as well and take my word for it if you look on the pumps there is most likely a sticker saying that the fuel is a 5 to 20% bio-mass blend.....Alan
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Old 11-01-2014, 05:48 PM   #4
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Ditto. If memory serves me correctly a P/FJ rep stated at a rally last year that all of their stations only sold the blend.
In 5000+ miles I have had no problems. I do add a biocide, biobor jf.
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Old 11-01-2014, 06:34 PM   #5
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Mine isn't new enough to be a problem with the B20 but I still don't want to use it. I look for stations that have non bio diesel, even though it costs more.

I agree, in the last few months it has gotten harder to find non blended diesel. I try to never run the tank below about half full. That way I can usually buy only 10 or 15 gallons to get me to another town and not have a full tank of bio. Maybe overthinkin' it?
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Old 11-01-2014, 07:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by fastcat View Post
Mine isn't new enough to be a problem with the B20 but I still don't want to use it. I look for stations that have non bio diesel, even though it costs more.



I agree, in the last few months it has gotten harder to find non blended diesel. I try to never run the tank below about half full. That way I can usually buy only 10 or 15 gallons to get me to another town and not have a full tank of bio. Maybe overthinkin' it?

Ok...who has read the lubricity studies. Do you know why they are are blending ? Do you know why they recommend a B5 blend. Do you know what ULSD does to your injectors and high pressure fuel pump ? If you did, you would hate the information.

I do. Try reading a BUNCH of real world Diesel engine information and then decide for yourself.
I LOOK for the blend, MUCH better lubrication for your fuel system. Cleaner burning, yes I know lower BTU's. But at what cost.
Cleans your fuel system. Do you know what the inside of a Diesel engine looks like after burning bio diesel....I do.
GREAT..CLEAN. Do you use an additive ? Do you KNOW it's affects ?


I have talked to so many people who are afraid of a Bio Blend, then I ask why. The new Bio diesel is NOTHING like veggie oil from days past. The standards for making Bio Diesel you can sell to Joe public are incredibly high.

Older engines benefit even more, they were never designed to run on ULSD. High pressure pump and injector failures..$$$
Would I add an algae side now and then....can not hurt...even with ULSD and high moisture parts of the US.

Ok...not trying to ruffle feathers. To each his own. Do some research and then decide for yourself.

Safe travels !
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Old 11-02-2014, 04:43 AM   #7
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Ok...who has read the lubricity studies. Do you know why they are are blending ? Do you know why they recommend a B5 blend. Do you know what ULSD does to your injectors and high pressure fuel pump ? If you did, you would hate the information.

I do. Try reading a BUNCH of real world Diesel engine information and then decide for yourself.
I LOOK for the blend, MUCH better lubrication for your fuel system. Cleaner burning, yes I know lower BTU's. But at what cost.
Cleans your fuel system. Do you know what the inside of a Diesel engine looks like after burning bio diesel....I do.
GREAT..CLEAN. Do you use an additive ? Do you KNOW it's affects ?


I have talked to so many people who are afraid of a Bio Blend, then I ask why. The new Bio diesel is NOTHING like veggie oil from days past. The standards for making Bio Diesel you can sell to Joe public are incredibly high.

Older engines benefit even more, they were never designed to run on ULSD. High pressure pump and injector failures..$$$
Would I add an algae side now and then....can not hurt...even with ULSD and high moisture parts of the US.

Ok...not trying to ruffle feathers. To each his own. Do some research and then decide for yourself.

Safe travels !
I have done some research myself but apparently have not read the same things that you have.What I have found is that the bio blends are good for the older diesel engines pre 2010 I think it is and I have not found that much info on it being bad for the newer ones.What I am concerned about is why if it is so good for the newer ones does Navistar not recommend more than a 5% blend for their engines.Our engine warranty is what I am worried about so I will have to continue to look for the regular #2 diesel until I receive a notice or someone can provide me with proof that Navistar has changed their recommendations. I do think that Flying J./Pilot should be required to clean up their act and require that their employees know what products they are selling. Thanks for your input ,it has been great info.......Alan
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Old 11-02-2014, 05:20 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpykmpr47 View Post
I have done some research myself but apparently have not read the same things that you have.What I have found is that the bio blends are good for the older diesel engines pre 2010 I think it is and I have not found that much info on it being bad for the newer ones.What I am concerned about is why if it is so good for the newer ones does Navistar not recommend more than a 5% blend for their engines.Our engine warranty is what I am worried about so I will have to continue to look for the regular #2 diesel until I receive a notice or someone can provide me with proof that Navistar has changed their recommendations. I do think that Flying J./Pilot should be required to clean up their act and require that their employees know what products they are selling. Thanks for your input ,it has been great info.......Alan
The Navistar recommendation for no higher than 5% blend could have something to do with the EGR system on their engines. Just a guess so don't take it to the bank. I understand Navistar could not get the larger engines with the EGR to meet the EPA requirements and abandon the effort for the DEF method.

Bob
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:22 AM   #9
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True. There a numerous engine manufactures that recommend no higher than B5 blend.
I wonder if it is EGR...Bio Diesel burns SO MUCH cleaner.
Is it they have not done enough research.....that cost $$$

Most of the pre 2000 coaches would have issues burning say B20 or higher due to what the fuel lines are made of NOT Bio Diesel blend.
The newer coaches have the Bio Fuel comparable fuel lines. Is it just a matter of time before the up the allowable Bio Blend standards in the warranty department ? Time will tell.

I know MOST states are mandating a Bio Blend because the Bio blend burns much cleaner so it may be just a matter of time before 100 percent ULSD is gone.....Good. At least they are replacing the lubricants and cleaners they removed when they went from LOW sulphur diesel to ULSD with a B5 blend.

I agree that the Pilot and or Flying J personnel should know what is in their tanks but I also think it varies a little from load to load. The I information I have from the long haul truck side, including the newer rigs, and yes some of the BIG rigs run Maxxforce engines is the blend is usually in the B10 range and I would, and do run, that all day long.

If Navistar wants to test my fuel if I have an engine problem, well that will be a whole new battle. I will continue to purchase fuel from Pilot and Flying J and Murphy, they are starting to blend also. I keep almost all my fuel receipts for at least 12 months. Helps to know if I get bad fuel...not yet...but if, maybe I can trace where it came from.

I know study this is from the small truck market but it is just the tip of the study, if I find the BIG RIG study in my files I will post it.
My father is a 3 million mile plus long haul trucker and I have driving diesels and been around them quite some time and really enjoy reading diesel information. I read tech manuals and studies just for fun, I have been doing it for years.

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/educ...%20results.pdf

This is why we run additives in our new engines. The rail pressures in the new engines have increased so much over the last 10 years that those high pressure fuel pumps and injector are working hard and just need a little lubrication love.

Safe Travels !
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Old 11-02-2014, 08:44 AM   #10
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Another good read

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/ffs-pe...s.pdf?sfvrsn=4

Peace out !
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