BIRD bad advice

[YC1]

Originally Posted by bruceisla

Thanks! .. the NewMar paper is an interesting read. Both the Intellitec and the Precision Circuits BIRD descriptions caution against tying the batteries together when BOTH the alternator and Genset/Inverter-Charger are running.

It's interesting that the Precision Circuits device is using the "reduced hold voltage" technique to reduce solenoid heat and current draw .... like the older Intellitec Diesel 1. Also of interest (to me) is that Precision Circuits apparently does not offer a "Gas" version. I.E., the Precision Circuits device provides GenSet Lockout regardless of whether you are Gas or Diesel ... reinforcing my belief that the Intellitec "Diesel" labeling is misleading.

However, unless I missed it, there is no lockout, on any of the devices, when the engine is running (alternator in use) AND you are plugged into Shore Power (inverter/charger).

I too find it interesting they are concerned with the generator but not shoreline. At some time someone had a problem and decided it needed to be fixed but I cannot invision an issue. In each case the same charger is being used so voltage differences between the alternator output and charger output should not be a problem.

In any case I will not have a generator lock out on mine now and will see if any strange issues arrive.

Knowing about the generator cut off I understand why my low battery light on the dash would come on when first driving after sitting and I had the generator running thinking it was supplying plenty of power. It was not and the alternator was having a hard time catching up to weak batteries and running the grid heater. Had I pressed the AUX start button and held it things would have been different.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by YC1

I too find it interesting they are concerned with the generator but not shoreline. At some time someone had a problem and decided it needed to be fixed but I cannot invision an issue. In each case the same charger is being used so voltage differences between the alternator output and charger output should not be a problem.

.

BTW, thanks for starting this thread! It brought a lot more interesting data and discussion.

Yes, I can't figure out why GENSET/INVERTER/CHARGER + ALTERNATOR is considered more on an issue than SHORE POWER/INVERTER/CHARGER + ALTERNATOR. My assumption, I think like yours, is they had a reported problem with the first scenario because it was more noticeable, added the lockout, and moved on.

[YC1]

Bruce, Engineers design things, Technicians make them work!

All this fu fu stuff to drive a relay. A circuit board with lots of components, a small relay to make it not work. And when all is said and done I have a simple alligator clip with an inline fuse keeping the solenoid turned on.

[Dr4Film]

My 2002 Monaco Windsor coach has an Intellitec BIRD (Bi-Directional Isolator Relay Delay) Diesel-2, a Lambert Battery Maintainer and a Maintainer Lockout Relay.

The Maintainer Lockout Relay is used to prevent a conflict when the engine alternator is charging AND the generator is running.

The only different between a BIRD Diesel and the Diesel-2 is the amount of delay built into it.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[YC1]

Richard, your setup reminded me I did have a thought on why one might want the generator lockout feature. With a diode isolator and some of the regulators they actually measured the voltage on each bank of batteries. I believe just to be sure the regulator always had a sensing voltage. With the generator running the converter the two banks of batteries could easily see a bit of a voltage difference and who knows how that might effect one of those setups. With built in regulators only one source is needed and it really does not care. What would happen is the alternator would just not work as hard as long as the converter was putting out a strong voltage. And that is actually a good thing.

Your pictures show an isolator and you may have that setup. I believe it is a leese neville ?? I have the documentation but not important to post it at this time.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

The only different between a BIRD Diesel and the Diesel-2 is the amount of delay built into it.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

I'll have to take your work for it since I don't have a Diesel-2 to test. My prior understanding was that, as well as timing refinements, the Diesel-2 abandoned the delayed reduced hold voltage (around 4 vdc) due to an annoying hum from the solenoid when held at low voltage.

[bruceisla]

Originally Posted by YC1

Bruce, Engineers design things, Technicians make them work!

All this fu fu stuff to drive a relay. A circuit board with lots of components, a small relay to make it not work. And when all is said and done I have a simple alligator clip with an inline fuse keeping the solenoid turned on.

and then there were the days when ....


but we needed to get out of the recliner ... and maybe think about what we were doing ....