Broke Down in Warrenton MO..Turbo

[Inventor]

Originally Posted by dca81

Problem fixed. Clamp on rubber tube between turbo and CAC broke and turbo blew off. Replaced tube with new clamps and runs perfect. I am in Indiana enjoying family and looking forward to the family reunion this weekend. Thanks for the help...saved me some big$$$$
Bob

Out of curiosity did you loose any power when this happened? Thanks and I am glad you got it fixed.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by Inventor

Out of curiosity did you loose any power when this happened? Thanks and I am glad you got it fixed.

Yes he did. Lost a bunch of power.

[LargeMarge]

Originally Posted by dca81

Problem fixed. Clamp on rubber tube between turbo and CAC broke and turbo blew off. Replaced tube with new clamps and runs perfect...

.
2003, at night, on a one-lane, back in the backside of Baja someplace...
Our 1996 Cummins 505ci lost a boot clamp.
It sounded like a grenade under the hood.
.
I got out with one of the flashlights I carry in the cab.
.
As I rounded the passenger-side to peer up under the wheel-well, my darling opened the door... and creamed my cranium.
.
Other than the intake sucking non-filtered, I saw no problem cruising to a town.
No auto-parts stores carried a clamp that yuge, so I went to a hardware store.
.
A rubber plumbing 90° had the perfect clamp.
I slipped it on, good to roll.
.
I still have the elbow with the second clamp as a spare.
That single plumbing clamp is still going strong.
.
And I still have the dent in my noggin.

[skyking421]

I had to chime in.
I had a turbo duct blow off too, but it was on take-off at 500 feet in a twin engine aircraft. Scared the willies out of me. Thought I had an engine failure. Didn't look like enough runway left, but was able to land and stop before the end of the concrete. Thank goodness for the long runway at Ft Lauderdale Exec. airport! Mechanic reattached clamp and no more trouble.
Richard

[falconview]

Glad to hear you fixed it on your own.

Like many here I'm a DYI guy and the last thing I want is someone messing with my equipment.

The last thing that I had a problem with on a trip with my pickup was the cruise kicked off and the ABS light came on. At the time I didn't feel like running down the problem and stop in at an auto repair shop. They thought a wire to the ABS on the rear axle was broken and new wires would have to be installed. Then it was a week or so to get it in to fix costing several hundred dollars.

When I got home I started doing some research and what I ended up doing was to replace a sensor (less than $50) and about 15 minutes of my time and all was well.

The research, I had done was to check the sensor with an ohmmeter and sure enough, the sensor was bad. It took longer to research than to fix the problem.

[RichKimball]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

.
2003, at night, on a one-lane, back in the backside of Baja someplace...
Our 1996 Cummins 505ci lost a boot clamp.
It sounded like a grenade under the hood.
.
I got out with one of the flashlights I carry in the cab.
.
As I rounded the passenger-side to peer up under the wheel-well, my darling opened the door... and creamed my cranium.
.
Other than the intake sucking non-filtered, I saw no problem cruising to a town.
No auto-parts stores carried a clamp that yuge, so I went to a hardware store.
.
A rubber plumbing 90° had the perfect clamp.
I slipped it on, good to roll.
.
I still have the elbow with the second clamp as a spare.
That single plumbing clamp is still going strong.
.
And I still have the dent in my noggin.

Mercy sakes Marge...what an experience Hope the noggin heals someday

[jillmerriman]

Yes we lost power when the turbo clamp blew off. Lucky we had a nice shoulder to drive on. We were on I-5 in CA and couldn’t go faster than 5 mi hr. Lucky to pull off at fire station and replaced clamp. Napa carried. Spartan puts cheap hoses and clamps on intercooler and turbo hoses. When we got home we replaced hoses with good Cummins ones. Got a handy husband. He did himself.

[JVH]

On August 9th 2017 returning from a trip, about 30 miles from home, my 1995 American Eagle lost power and was climbing grades at about 25 mph. I have the old Cummins C8.3L mechanical turbo diesel. I suspected that the turbo had gone out. A diesel with no turbo is a sad thing indeed. I limped it into the Cummins Coach Care facility in Kansas City, MO. They determined the waste gate bearing had seized in the open position and the turbo assy. would have to be replaced. After a week of waiting for the part and $3000 lighter I went to pick it up. It was exactly the same. No power. I got one block down the street and turned it around and limped up the hill at 20 mph...

Cummins was very defensive and I am sure they could not have test drove it. They started claiming all kinds of other stuff must be wrong. My position was that if the turbo was the problem and you replaced it, it should have gone back to how it was running before. Now they said the tubing boots were leaking and they wanted another $800 to change them. They pressure tested the Charge Air Cooler (intercooler) and said it was leaking the boost out. They said the test showed a loss of 6 psi in 15 sec. The repair manual for the engine says the spec is 7 psi or less. So, it is in range… They checked the fuel line for blockage and said there was 10 inches of mercury restriction. Spec is 3 or less. So, I had them change the fuel filters which had just been changed less than 30 days before during the oil change. Now the restriction is Zero. It still won’t run.

I read on the diesel forums that this model is prone to the fuel return check valve going bad and not maintaining proper pressure to the injectors. It recommended clamping the rubber return tube to force the pressure up. They tried this but found only 14 Psi of pressure from the transfer pump. Spec is 25 psi. So, I had them replace the transfer pump. Now I have 30 psi. to the injector assy. Still won’t run right. They keep saying I am losing my boost. I asked how much boost is it building when it spools up? No one could answer that. Apparently, no one has hooked a boost gauge to it. Everyone is trained on the newer IS series engines that have plug in diagnostics.

It has been there for over a month and I think I have finally learned my lesson. This is the third time I have taken my coach to Cummins and been disappointed. Now I need to find an old school diesel mechanic that knows how to work on the mechanical models. Cummins even suggested that I take it to the Alison because they thought the transmission might be the problem.

After all that I went and got my coach back from Cummins Coach Care on Sept 18th. The additional troubleshooting and the replacement of the fuel filters and the transfer pump cost me an additional $1242.00 and that was with the Cummins Club discount. I limped along the highway at 30 mph for the 6 miles to the storage facility where she rested while I regrouped. I was not going to pay Cummins $800 to change the 3 turbo tubing boots and clamps. So, I ordered them online for $45.00 apiece instead of $122.00 ea. The $26.00 clamps were $9.50 ea. online and all with free shipping. So, $192.00 for parts.
I took the beast home that weekend, another 10 miles of limping along and 20 mph up hills on surface streets. Kept hearing “Get out of the way slowpoke” in my head all the way.

I had my buddy Brian come over who is younger, slimmer, and more flexible than I to help. First, we installed a boost gauge to find out where we stood. Zero boost at idle. Rev to limiter (2700) 7 psi boost. Load test. (put it in gear, hold the brake, and rev it.) Rpms stop at 1100 with 7 psi boost and coach just groans.

So now we installed the new boots and clamps. After much grunting and snorting plus a half a can of swear words they are all in. Some of the old clamps were pretty rusty but the old boots looked just fine. No cracks or splits. So, we fired her up. Absolutely No Change! 7 psi and weak as a kitten.

We decided to check all the fitting one at a time. Brian was feeling along the small aneroid tube from the turbo to the AFC valve on the injector pump and felt it move in an odd way. We immediately found the fitting to be snapped off at the AFC cover. Not directly visible because it was held in place by the hoses. However just placing your hand on it you could feel it was broken. (This is what had broken way back when.) I believe the turbo failure was due to it running super lean and getting the turbo too hot.

We had a bear of a time getting out the security bolt on the AFC cover which had to come off to get the snapped off brass pipe nipple out. We replaced the nipple and the tee with new ones from the hardware store and I even replace the cover bolts with new hex head bolt for easier future access. Total cost of parts $8.50.

So, we fired her up again. Zero boost at idle. Rev to limiter (2700) 7 psi boost. Load test. The rpms went past 1100, the coach started bucking and the boost gauge climbed to about 20 psi. A road test shows her pulling nicely and topping out at 25 psi of boost.

I am not left with a good feeling about Cummins Coach Care.

Now to be fair.
The transfer pump was weak.
The filters were clogged.
But it did not need the boots replaced.
And I am not sure about the turbo itself.
And it should not have taken a month and $4300.00 to Not Find and Not Fix something that my friend and I found in about 30 mins of manually checking lines. Nether one of us is a mechanic. He is a programmer and I am an IT manager. He wrenches on his truck and motorcycles and I helped keep our farm tractors running as a kid.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by JVH

On August 9th 2017 returning from a trip, about 30 miles from home, my 1995 American Eagle lost power and was climbing grades at about 25 mph. I have the old Cummins C8.3L mechanical turbo diesel. I suspected that the turbo had gone out. A diesel with no turbo is a sad thing indeed. I limped it into the Cummins Coach Care facility in Kansas City, MO. They determined the waste gate bearing had seized in the open position and the turbo assy. would have to be replaced. After a week of waiting for the part and $3000 lighter I went to pick it up. It was exactly the same. No power. I got one block down the street and turned it around and limped up the hill at 20 mph...



Cummins was very defensive and I am sure they could not have test drove it. They started claiming all kinds of other stuff must be wrong. My position was that if the turbo was the problem and you replaced it, it should have gone back to how it was running before. Now they said the tubing boots were leaking and they wanted another $800 to change them. They pressure tested the Charge Air Cooler (intercooler) and said it was leaking the boost out. They said the test showed a loss of 6 psi in 15 sec. The repair manual for the engine says the spec is 7 psi or less. So, it is in range… They checked the fuel line for blockage and said there was 10 inches of mercury restriction. Spec is 3 or less. So, I had them change the fuel filters which had just been changed less than 30 days before during the oil change. Now the restriction is Zero. It still won’t run.



I read on the diesel forums that this model is prone to the fuel return check valve going bad and not maintaining proper pressure to the injectors. It recommended clamping the rubber return tube to force the pressure up. They tried this but found only 14 Psi of pressure from the transfer pump. Spec is 25 psi. So, I had them replace the transfer pump. Now I have 30 psi. to the injector assy. Still won’t run right. They keep saying I am losing my boost. I asked how much boost is it building when it spools up? No one could answer that. Apparently, no one has hooked a boost gauge to it. Everyone is trained on the newer IS series engines that have plug in diagnostics.



It has been there for over a month and I think I have finally learned my lesson. This is the third time I have taken my coach to Cummins and been disappointed. Now I need to find an old school diesel mechanic that knows how to work on the mechanical models. Cummins even suggested that I take it to the Alison because they thought the transmission might be the problem.



After all that I went and got my coach back from Cummins Coach Care on Sept 18th. The additional troubleshooting and the replacement of the fuel filters and the transfer pump cost me an additional $1242.00 and that was with the Cummins Club discount. I limped along the highway at 30 mph for the 6 miles to the storage facility where she rested while I regrouped. I was not going to pay Cummins $800 to change the 3 turbo tubing boots and clamps. So, I ordered them online for $45.00 apiece instead of $122.00 ea. The $26.00 clamps were $9.50 ea. online and all with free shipping. So, $192.00 for parts.

I took the beast home that weekend, another 10 miles of limping along and 20 mph up hills on surface streets. Kept hearing “Get out of the way slowpoke” in my head all the way.



I had my buddy Brian come over who is younger, slimmer, and more flexible than I to help. First, we installed a boost gauge to find out where we stood. Zero boost at idle. Rev to limiter (2700) 7 psi boost. Load test. (put it in gear, hold the brake, and rev it.) Rpms stop at 1100 with 7 psi boost and coach just groans.



So now we installed the new boots and clamps. After much grunting and snorting plus a half a can of swear words they are all in. Some of the old clamps were pretty rusty but the old boots looked just fine. No cracks or splits. So, we fired her up. Absolutely No Change! 7 psi and weak as a kitten.



We decided to check all the fitting one at a time. Brian was feeling along the small aneroid tube from the turbo to the AFC valve on the injector pump and felt it move in an odd way. We immediately found the fitting to be snapped off at the AFC cover. Not directly visible because it was held in place by the hoses. However just placing your hand on it you could feel it was broken. (This is what had broken way back when.) I believe the turbo failure was due to it running super lean and getting the turbo too hot.



We had a bear of a time getting out the security bolt on the AFC cover which had to come off to get the snapped off brass pipe nipple out. We replaced the nipple and the tee with new ones from the hardware store and I even replace the cover bolts with new hex head bolt for easier future access. Total cost of parts $8.50.



So, we fired her up again. Zero boost at idle. Rev to limiter (2700) 7 psi boost. Load test. The rpms went past 1100, the coach started bucking and the boost gauge climbed to about 20 psi. A road test shows her pulling nicely and topping out at 25 psi of boost.



I am not left with a good feeling about Cummins Coach Care.



Now to be fair.

The transfer pump was weak.

The filters were clogged.

But it did not need the boots replaced.

And I am not sure about the turbo itself.

And it should not have taken a month and $4300.00 to Not Find and Not Fix something that my friend and I found in about 30 mins of manually checking lines. Nether one of us is a mechanic. He is a programmer and I am an IT manager. He wrenches on his truck and motorcycles and I helped keep our farm tractors running as a kid.

Your turbo was probably fine. Usually when old school (fixed pitch) turbos go down the fins rub inside the housings (making noise) and or the seals leak oil into the exhaust or intake side or both.

[Rob_M]

Ive had several charge pipes fail over the years but on a front engine truck it’s a little more obvious what happened than a DP. Sometimes they go Pow! Or if a hose splits they scream and hiss.

I wonder how many coach turbos have been replaced (or not) under false pretenses by shady mechanics.

[dave&ginny]

Originally Posted by dca81

Problem fixed. Clamp on rubber tube between turbo and CAC broke and turbo blew off. Replaced tube with new clamps and runs perfect. I am in Indiana enjoying family and looking forward to the family reunion this weekend. Thanks for the help...saved me some big$$$$
Bob

Do yourself a favor and while in that area stop at a little town called White Pigeon Michigan. Bontrager's RV surplus has spring clamps that can be used for the turbos for $3 each as well as clamps for the air filter that tend to rust. This place has most of the replacement parts for these coaches there very cheep. It's amazing what you find in this store with a little digging.

[oilcan]

white smoke generally indictive of no fuel or a blown head gasket if the rubber hose has blown off the intake side of the turbo look inside the turbo inlet you will see the compressor wheel try to rock the wheel if it wont rock and it will turn easily reinstall the rubber hose on the intake of the turbo install the clamp restart the engine if it will if it wants to hydraulic or lockup it then likely be a head gasket or other internal engine failure if it starts up sounds normal no smoke then it was likely just a turbo intake boot failure or a collapsed cac

[MarkK]

Well here I sit in Beach, ND, waiting for a tow.

Yesterday leaving Theodore Roosevelt National Park I heard a loud whooshing noise and noticed a loss of power. Short of it, one of the CAC boots had come off. I noticed black oil on the inside of the boot. Not good.

Re-clamped everything, short test drive, got on I-94 and got 2 miles down the road when the hose blew off again.

Re-fitted the hose, tried to get back to Beach, the hose blew off again.

Called a mobile mechanic in from Glendive. He pulled the boot off and it again was covered in black oil. No way to drive this to Glendive for the repair. They called out their tow truck, but didn't bring wheel lifts claiming they don't have them and didn't think they needed them.

3 hours later they admitted they'll need to bring out a flatbed or lowboy because they have no way of hooking up to the IFS front suspension.

Only 1 turbo in the Cummins system available in Phoenix. $5K + $300-500 overnight air.

We live full time in this rig. My guess is a minimum of 5-7 days before we're up and running again. And the CAC radiator will need to be cleaned out too.

[MarkK]

Shop got the turbo swapped out in 1.5 hours! Problem is the CAC is half full of oil. Has to be soaked overnight. This shop is pulling out all the stops to get us out of here tomorrow.