Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 06-22-2022, 02:53 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Dynasty_09's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St-Colomban
Posts: 414
Can I have LiFePo4 as House batteries and Lead acid as Chassis Batteries?

Hi everybody,

In my Monaco Dynasty Yorkshire 2009, I replaced my 4 big AGM 6 volts house batteries (They were 400A each for a total of 400A of usable power) by 5X170A Renogy LiFePo4 batteries (Total usable power of 850 amps).

I also replaced my solar panels and controler (Heliotrope HPV-30DR) by a Renogy Rover LI40A Charge controler.

I had to replace the Magnum remote controler to accept charge rates for Lithium.

Now my questions are:
  • Can I keep the chassis Lead acid batteries since the BIRD is bridging both batteries and the Lithium are charging at 14.4 volts?
  • If not, is there a Lithium battery able to crank my ISM engine (I need 1800CCA)?

Thanks in advance for your help and have a great day!
__________________
Michel & Nicole
2009 Monaco Dynasty Yorkshire 45
(ISM 500HP, Scangauge D, Eeze tire TPMS, Working Truecenter) 20' trailer and a race car
Dynasty_09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 06-22-2022, 04:21 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Isaac-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 7,453
You will need to disable the BIRD and probably install a DC-DC charger to charge your LiFePo4 batteries from your engine alternator in order to prevent the sustained high amp draw of the LiFePo4 batteries from killing your alternator.
__________________
2002 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis with 8.1L w/ 400 watts solar 420Ah LiFePo4
2017 Jeep Cherokee Overland & 2007 Toyota Yaris TOADs with Even Brake,
Demco Commander tow bar and Blue Ox / Roadmaster base plates
Isaac-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 05:34 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 30,806
With disabling your BIRD, you will need a battery maintainer to keep your chassis batteries charged while on shore power.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 05:38 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 125
The lithiums are not going to be able to start the big Diesel engine. The lithiumís bms will shut down and off (at 100 amps per battery? - check your battery specs).

You need to disable the Bird. If you can figure it out put a manual switch in so if your chassis battery needs some extra juice - you can hit the switch & give it the juice. Think very fast chargeÖ

I believe some people change out to the Blue Sea ACR and set it for manual.

You need to be careful and treat those lithiumís right or they will die an expensive death.

FYI - I have Lithiumís for my house and AGM Lead for the chassis. It can work. There is no direct connection beteeen the two batteries. I have:
1. Victron DC-Dc charger to charge Lithiumís from the alternator.
2. (Original) a charger that charges the chassis from the house. LE415 Lambert.
3. (Original) A boost solenoid - manual operation.

Good Luck!
__________________
Michael Loosle
2000 Monaco Dynasty 36í
2018 Jeep JKU
Rocketman3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 05:43 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
windsorbill's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 4,070
Couple options you can do, depending on your situation.

If you leave the BIRD in place, you'll likely burn out your alternator. It needs to be disabled. As mentioned, you can install a DC to DC charger to charge them from the ISM.
or,
You could also relay only on solar when not on shore power or generator to charge your batteries.

LiFePO4 batteries are not designed to start a big diesel. Most are rated at only 100amp draw/battery. Not even close to your 1800 draw required to start that ISM. Stick with the starting batteries you already have.
__________________
Bill & Brigitte
06 Windsor PEQ, Cummins 400 ISL
2014 Honda CRV
windsorbill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 06:13 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Timaz's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: On the road
Posts: 1,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty_09 View Post
Hi everybody,

In my Monaco Dynasty Yorkshire 2009, I replaced my 4 big AGM 6 volts house batteries (They were 400A each for a total of 400A of usable power) by 5X170A Renogy LiFePo4 batteries (Total usable power of 850 amps).

I also replaced my solar panels and controler (Heliotrope HPV-30DR) by a Renogy Rover LI40A Charge controler.

I had to replace the Magnum remote controler to accept charge rates for Lithium.

Now my questions are:
  • Can I keep the chassis Lead acid batteries since the BIRD is bridging both batteries and the Lithium are charging at 14.4 volts?

  • If not, is there a Lithium battery able to crank my ISM engine (I need 1800CCA)?

Thanks in advance for your help and have a great day!

The short answer is yes as I do and I have not disabled any alternator charging. But I am careful to charge the batteries up a little over 90% before I start the engine so the alternator really doesnít work very hard for very long. Iíve only seen my 200 amp alternator putting 75 A max into the lithium batteries. But if you donít want to do what Iím doing you can wire in a DC to DC charger.

Tim
__________________
Full Time 2000 Dynasty Regent, 8.3, Banks Turbo, 5" Diameter Exhaust, 475 HP 1425 Torque towing 05 Pilot 700 Watts solar 400ah lithium & E-Bike
Timaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 06:33 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 3,449
The general rule is "do not charge batteries of different chemistry on the same charging circuit". They have different charging profiles. See battery manufacturer's specs.

Do use lead acid batteries for chassis start batteries. Even a Tesla has a lead acid battery.

As posted above a large lithium battery bank can destroy many engine alternators. This usually does not happen if you have a large enough lead acid chassis battery. It may depend on how things are wired.

The voltage spike the alternator generates when the Li BMS disconnects can fry the alternator winding insulation. This link explains it better than I can.
https://marinehowto.com/drop-in-life...ated-consumer/
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 06:44 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
153stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Braidwood Il.
Posts: 5,908
Like older weaker jump packs it might take time to recharge start battery. The boost could be used to recharge the chassis batts enough to restart the diesel. The lifepo4 batts won't be resting at 14.7 v so charge to chassis might be at 100amps tops and would drop as chassis batts got higher. The auto combine from chassis is usually disabled like mentioned.
__________________
95 Monaco Crown Royale
M11 400hp, 4060 trans.
Aquahot, Generac Guardian7.5k
153stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 07:31 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Dynasty_09's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St-Colomban
Posts: 414
Wow,
A bunch of good stuff there and you'll certainly saved me a lot of money.

I'll disable the bird asap and install a dc-dc charger. Renogy seems to have good one.

I was thinking of installing a manual switch to bridge them if needed.

Thanks again, excellent knowledge base on this forum. A lot better than Google can provide.

P.s. Since the batteries are always bridged when unhooked from the wall. Wouldn't the Lithium try to equalize with the lead-acid and bring them down faster than expected???

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X505F using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
__________________
Michel & Nicole
2009 Monaco Dynasty Yorkshire 45
(ISM 500HP, Scangauge D, Eeze tire TPMS, Working Truecenter) 20' trailer and a race car
Dynasty_09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 07:50 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Isaac-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 7,453
You don't want them bridged for a number of reasons, but no the Lithium's will not drag down the lead acid batteries in most situations, since across most of their discharge curve they would be at above the 12.8VDC of a fully charged lead acid (12.8VDC is about 17% SOC for LiFePo4).


Note the DC-DC charger I have is a Renogy model, which also includes an MPPT solar charge controller, and provides back feed charging for the Lead Acid starting battery once the Lithium is topped off. It is not perfect, and has a few annoying traits like limiting alternator input to no more than half its 50 amp capacity if there is ANY solar input. In other words it is a 50 AMP DC-DC charger, that will only draw 50 amps from the alternator when driving at night, in the daytime even in early morning cloudy weather where it is barely making 1 amp from my 400 watts worth of solar panels it will charge at 26 amps, 25 from the alternator and 1 from the solar panels. It also limits Solar panels to 25VDC which means you can't string them in series like you can with most other good MPPT solar controllers. Overall nice in theory, but I sure hope they fix these flaws with the next version.
__________________
2002 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis with 8.1L w/ 400 watts solar 420Ah LiFePo4
2017 Jeep Cherokee Overland & 2007 Toyota Yaris TOADs with Even Brake,
Demco Commander tow bar and Blue Ox / Roadmaster base plates
Isaac-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 09:20 PM   #11
Community Moderator
 
HarryStone's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Clovis NM
Posts: 4,254
Blog Entries: 4
I use a magnum smart battery combiner instead of a dc to dc converter. Works great
__________________
2006 Damon Daybreak 3276 35'with 5 Star Tuner. 3 200 Amp Lithium batteries and 2000 watt PSW inverter/charger. 2013 Elantra on a Master Tow dolly.
Retired USAF
HarryStone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 09:29 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Isaac-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 7,453
A smart battery combiner can't boost input voltage a good DC-DC charger can, this way you can charge your Lithium batteries without overcharging your lead acid.



For example on my Renogy DC-DC charger the alternator can be putting out 14.0VDC charging the mostly charged lead acid starting battery, yet the DC-DC charger will boost this to 14.4VDC for charging the LiFePo4 battery.
__________________
2002 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis with 8.1L w/ 400 watts solar 420Ah LiFePo4
2017 Jeep Cherokee Overland & 2007 Toyota Yaris TOADs with Even Brake,
Demco Commander tow bar and Blue Ox / Roadmaster base plates
Isaac-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 09:33 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Dynasty_09's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St-Colomban
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac-1 View Post
You don't want them bridged for a number of reasons, but no the Lithium's will not drag down the lead acid batteries in most situations, since across most of their discharge curve they would be at above the 12.8VDC of a fully charged lead acid (12.8VDC is about 17% SOC for LiFePo4).


Note the DC-DC charger I have is a Renogy model, which also includes an MPPT solar charge controller, and provides back feed charging for the Lead Acid starting battery once the Lithium is topped off. It is not perfect, and has a few annoying traits like limiting alternator input to no more than half its 50 amp capacity if there is ANY solar input. In other words it is a 50 AMP DC-DC charger, that will only draw 50 amps from the alternator when driving at night, in the daytime even in early morning cloudy weather where it is barely making 1 amp from my 400 watts worth of solar panels it will charge at 26 amps, 25 from the alternator and 1 from the solar panels. It also limits Solar panels to 25VDC which means you can't string them in series like you can with most other good MPPT solar controllers. Overall nice in theory, but I sure hope they fix these flaws with the next version.
I was more thinking the lead-acid would drag the Lithium down. Does it make sense?

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X505F using iRV2 - RV Forum mobile app
__________________
Michel & Nicole
2009 Monaco Dynasty Yorkshire 45
(ISM 500HP, Scangauge D, Eeze tire TPMS, Working Truecenter) 20' trailer and a race car
Dynasty_09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2022, 10:51 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Isaac-1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SW Louisiana
Posts: 7,453
Yes, and that is an issue, though not one that will keep your engine from starting when you get done dry camping.
__________________
2002 Safari Trek 2830 on P32 Chassis with 8.1L w/ 400 watts solar 420Ah LiFePo4
2017 Jeep Cherokee Overland & 2007 Toyota Yaris TOADs with Even Brake,
Demco Commander tow bar and Blue Ox / Roadmaster base plates
Isaac-1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries, chassis, chassis batteries, house batteries, lifepo4



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
House/Coach batteries - Lead/acid type vancas4 Class A Motorhome Discussions 6 09-10-2021 12:21 PM
Adding Solar and Extra Lead Acid Batteries MartinGale Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 8 09-01-2021 06:37 AM
New lithium batteries charging lead acid chassis battery garyb1st Class A Motorhome Discussions 8 12-09-2020 11:23 AM
Tiffin, can we ditch lead acid in 2018? trx430ex Tiffin Owner's Forum 45 01-14-2018 05:37 PM
AGM and lead acid batteries Wingnude National RV Owner's Forum 4 10-30-2016 09:17 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.