ccc upgrade/axle upgrade?

[zacktown]

Hi All!

Last year I bought a 2007 Camelot 40 PDQ and have already logged 13k miles on the road with my family. We love our coach, but I have discovered a few weaknesses. Mainly, the cargo carrying capacity is approximately 1500 lbs. With the coach so close to max, I feel this makes for a bouncy ride even after upgrading my shocks to bilsteins. With the shock upgrade, bounciness has been reduced by 50 percent, but I feel like I could do better. Maybe supersteer motion control units might help even more. However, before I do any more suspension upgrades, I was wondering if it is possible to do an axle upgrade? According to the documentation, it is the axles that the weight ratings are based on.

I figure if I spend a fair amount of money to upgrade axles, front tires, and add MCUs, I will be far better off than trading in for a coach with a better CCC. Has anyone ever attempted this?

[Mr_D]

First off: only the complete vehicle manufacturer can legally upgrade the chassis ratings. You can make yourself feel safer by going to bigger tires, brakes etc, but it won't change the CCC, GVWR, GCVWR, NCC or anything else weight related.
In our case we did get Newmar to issue us a new, revised, weight certificate. Our DSDP only had 663#'s of CCC and all of that was on the rear axle and the front was overloaded before we added a thing to it or got aboard. I had looked at the NCC figures and it showed 5,300#'s so I thought we would have a good CCC. Didn't even order the real tile floor to keep the weight down.
To fix it they had Spartan install a 14,600# front axle in place of the 12,000# one.
That's about all you can legally do is get the manufacturer to modify the vehicle and recertify it to the higher rating. While on the rack at Spartan they inspected the chassis and noted that Newmar only rated it for 19,000#'s. They said there was no reason for them to do that as it was a 20,000# axle. My guess is that Newmar knows that people overload their rigs and did a little CYA to the ratings. They didn't do that to the front though.
Another thing is: do you already have a 20,000# single rear axle? If so you can't change the rating at all as that's the legal maximum for a single axle in most states. One of the manufacturers (Country Coach?) tried putting 23,000# axles in the rear. They ended up buying a lot of them back and replacing them with tag axle units. Some states back east weigh your rig at the toll booth and refuse entry if you're overweight.

[Ed S]

I had the same issue with my last class a due to the amount of heavy stuff I needed to carry with me. To make matters worst there was some conversation the mfg of the coach said the rear axle was rated as a 20,000# but axle mfg rated it at 19,000. This scared the heck out of me and I bought a truck conversion. Now no weight issues.

[walt2137]

On our 2000 Dyn we have a Eaton Axel, I called them with the S/N and ask was it a 22,000 or a 20,000 as Monaco also made a few with 22,000 on the sticker, I was told it is whatever the mfg of the chassis said it was up to 23,000 so get your S/N and see what they say.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by walt2137

On our 2000 Dyn we have a Eaton Axel, I called them with the S/N and ask was it a 22,000 or a 20,000 as Monaco also made a few with 22,000 on the sticker, I was told it is whatever the mfg of the chassis said it was up to 23,000 so get your S/N and see what they say.

But it's still not legal to load to that weight in most states. But fortunately they'll probably never check you, unlike the toll roads back east do.

[slickest1]

Originally Posted by zacktown

Hi All!

Last year I bought a 2007 Camelot 40 PDQ and have already logged 13k miles on the road with my family. We love our coach, but I have discovered a few weaknesses. Mainly, the cargo carrying capacity is approximately 1500 lbs. With the coach so close to max, I feel this makes for a bouncy ride even after upgrading my shocks to bilsteins. With the shock upgrade, bounciness has been reduced by 50 percent, but I feel like I could do better. Maybe supersteer motion control units might help even more. However, before I do any more suspension upgrades, I was wondering if it is possible to do an axle upgrade? According to the documentation, it is the axles that the weight ratings are based on.

I figure if I spend a fair amount of money to upgrade axles, front tires, and add MCUs, I will be far better off than trading in for a coach with a better CCC. Has anyone ever attempted this?

Replacing the front axle will up your ccc. To get the bounce out you may need to up the pressure in the front air ride. That may mean a rougher ride.

[zacktown]

wow, this is really great information so far. I put a call into Monaco to see what they say, so I will report back once I hear from them. I will also call the axle manufacturer to see what they say.

I feel like the safetysteer MCUs will get the rest of the bounce out without harming the ride quality too much, but not sure. I am considering heading out to grants pass this summer, so if I can wait that long, I might have henderson line up do the install. They describe these as baffles that work similar to the way shocks do by keeping the air from going in and out of the airbags too quickly (bounce).

All in all, my coach does ride/handle pretty well, but I do cringe whenever I see a big bump in the road, like right before a bridge. I watch the big rigs and the prevost's just roll over em like it was nothing, while I tell the wife and kids to hold on. LOL

I have seen some coaches that have 8 - 10k ccc and I just dream. I do believe that there is a correlation between ccc and ride quality. The closer you take your coach to the max, the more likely it is going to impact ride quality. I digress.

Thank you all again!

[Mr_D]

I don't see where you answered my questions in post #2 about what you have for a rear axle now.
The ratings go not just by what an axle can carry but also what the brakes can stop.

[zacktown]

Originally Posted by Mr_D

I don't see where you answered my questions in post #2 about what you have for a rear axle now.
The ratings go not just by what an axle can carry but also what the brakes can stop.

Sorry, I didn't notice that. I don't know what I have for a rear axle now as far as who the manufacturer is. As I recall (no docs with me @ home), the front is rated at 14600 and the rear is rated at 20,000. At last weighing while empty, 1/2 water, full gas, full lpg was 33k.

[zacktown]

I just got the response from monaco:

It would be possible to upgrade the axles, however the drivetrain of the coach was designed with the original weight ratings in mind and there is no guarantee that the engine, transmission, and radiator would be able to handle the extra load. Most shops will not do this kind of work due to liability concerns.

Obviously, this is part technical, part legal, but I accept that and I understand. Maybe they assume that I am armor plating my vehicle

I see a new coach in my future, well maybe not near future...

[nodine]

Originally Posted by zacktown

I just got the response from monaco:

It would be possible to upgrade the axles, however the drivetrain of the coach was designed with the original weight ratings in mind and there is no guarantee that the engine, transmission, and radiator would be able to handle the extra load. Most shops will not do this kind of work due to liability concerns.

Obviously, this is part technical, part legal, but I accept that and I understand. Maybe they assume that I am armor plating my vehicle

I see a new coach in my future, well maybe not near future...

You can ingnore me if you like, but I think you are barking up the wrong tree so to speak. I have been down this road and now my coach rides and handles like a dream. If you are having trouble with bounce, the first two things you need to do are to put on 8 new shocks and get the ride height set by a shop that knows motorhomes. I would be willing to bet your shocks are shot. We have 8 Koni's but the Bilsteins are also a good choice if you get the ones set for your coach. Call Source Engineering and they will steer you in the right direction. To further improve the ride and handling put on the front and rear sway bars available from Source Engineering.
RV-Chassis

I do not have any association with Source but can vouch for them.

When we put the Koni's on it was like night and day. The first ride height adjustment helped but the sway bars made a huge improvement in the ride and how the coach took the bridge expansion joints. I thought I had the coach as good as it would get until Jan when we made a visit to Josams in Orlando. We were spending a few weeks in the area so I took the coach to Josams to have the four wheel alignment and ride height checked. We have had Buddy Gregg and Lazydays adjust the ride height, both Monaco dealers, and thought it should be correct. Wrong! We could not believe how much smoother the ride was after Josams did the ride height adjustment. Now we only hear the bridge expansion joints and do not feel them. Life is good.

Bob

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

Zachtown.. are you sure about your CCC only being 1500 lbs? I have a 2006 Camelot PDQ and it has 4602 lbs CCC. This is from the label affixed to the back side of the mirror over the bathroom sink.

Also, look on the sticker affixed to the wall just behind the drivers seat. It should tell you what your axles are. Don't go by what the owners manual or anything else says, the label affixed to your chassis is the actual build data for you coach. My GAWR for the rear is 23,000 lbs. I'm sure your's is the same.

[zacktown]

Originally Posted by Bob (WA0MQE)

Zachtown.. are you sure about your CCC only being 1500 lbs? I have a 2006 Camelot PDQ and it has 4602 lbs CCC. This is from the label affixed to the back side of the mirror over the bathroom sink.

Also, look on the sticker affixed to the wall just behind the drivers seat. It should tell you what your axles are. Don't go by what the owners manual or anything else says, the label affixed to your chassis is the actual build data for you coach. My GAWR for the rear is 23,000 lbs. I'm sure your's is the same.

I was hopeful, but I checked my coach today. 20k rear, 14600 front per the sticker next to the driver seat. Next, I will see if I can find out the manufacturer of the axle and see if their specs differ.

After looking at the unofficial weigh station weight when the coach was new, I have a bit more ccc than I thought. I also removed the bulky tv and cabinet in the back and OLD flatscreen in the front and replaced them with much lighter and newer models. That and a few other upgrades, I am sure takes me to over 2k.

[zacktown]

update to this old thread: I checked the serial number for the rear "dana" axle and it is 21,000 lb rating per dana (not 20k like monaco says), so good news