Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Monaco Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-28-2023, 12:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 126
Changing to Lithium batteries

I am considering changing my lead acid batteries with new Lithium batteries. I have a Magnum MS 2000 inverter charger with the Intellect control panel and 2 each 190w solar panels with a Go Power controller. Can I just install the new batteries, or will other changes be required?
And if other technical changes are required who would be most competent to make the changes?

Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

Kovals
2009 42' Monaco Camelot PDQ
425 Cummings ISL
F-150 Towd
kovalsmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-28-2023, 06:26 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
jacwjames's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 14,720
I haven't installed lithium but read posts on people who have.
My understanding is that you'll have to isolate the house and chassis batteries otherwise you will burn up the alternator as it will have to work to hard. There are ways to charge the house from the alternator, you'll have to decide what would work for you.

Lithium batteries don't like cold weather so you'll have to locate them in a controlled space and if you live/camp in colder weather my have to add heat.


Lots of good info out there, I've watched several videos, read several articles, and monitor a couple RV forums. I've decided that lithium would be nice but not a necessity for me.
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD Cummins ISC 350 8.3L
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
jacwjames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2023, 06:42 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
markpj23's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 321
Lots of expensive mistakes to be made if you don't thoroughly understand what's involved. Several threads discuss in detail.
Here's a good place to start: https://www.irv2.com/forums/f106/lit...in-603442.html
__________________
Mark
'07 Essex (Sold)
'21 Jeep GC dinghy
markpj23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2023, 12:01 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: California
Posts: 259
I just replied a post a few days back about this. I have done an extensive remodel of my electrical system. A short answer is: Yes, your new lithium battery will stop charge at 80% full, which is not a bad thing. Just pick a name brand like battleborn and do a drop in replacement.

A bit more explaination: Lithium battery run at a higher voltage than lead acid battery. Charge them using the same charger and algorithm will not fully vhatge them. But charged lithium to 100%all the time will shorten it's life anyways.

So if you don't cycle your batteries that often (like once a day everyday), it is totally ok. One last thing, if you frequently use in below freezing temp, and you don't want to do too much remodel, maybe lithium is not for you. Lithium is not as ragged as lead acid battery, they can't be charged below freezing temp.

I am hoping to make a video on Youtube introducing my system. I will make a post here maybe that can earn me a few subs. I have 15kwh @24v battery with 3800w solar and 2x3kw@240v inverter. If anyone cares, I can share a bit more info.
Sinyyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 06:53 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
153stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Braidwood Il.
Posts: 8,300
Is this your controller to change charge profile. Check the listed inverters.
https://acrobat.adobe.com/link/revie...3-1a29eb5805f6
__________________
95 Monaco Crown Royale
M11 400hp, 4060 trans.
Aquahot, Generac Guardian7.5k
153stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:09 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,236
Yes, your new lithium battery will stop charge at 80% full, which is not a bad thing. Just pick a name brand like battleborn and do a drop in replacement.

Actually this depends on the specific Li battery you choose and the specific charger you have available. Older RV battery chargers will not work acceptably. It also depends on the pattern of use you follow. With these and other variables all making a difference, only general advice can be given.

What Li battery would you choose?
Exactly what model number of Magnum 2000 do you have?
How will you use the new battery? Discharge, recharge cycle patterns, etc.
What kind of 12 volt system are you using.
What make and model of solar controller are you using?

A bit more explaination: Lithium battery run at a higher voltage than lead acid battery. Charge them using the same charger and algorithm will not fully vhatge them. But charged lithium to 100%all the time will shorten it's life anyways.

Actually charging them to 100% and holding charging for a specific period is required for long life (cell balancing). However, storing them at less than full charge will increase the already long life a little.

So if you don't cycle your batteries that often (like once a day everyday), it is totally ok. One last thing, if you frequently use in below freezing temp, and you don't want to do too much remodel, maybe lithium is not for you. Lithium is not as ragged as lead acid battery, they can't be charged below freezing temp.

Li batteries are much better at frequent cycling than lead acid batteries. Li batteries are what they are. They can be rugged or delicate depending on how you use them. NASA uses them in Space where temperatures drop below -200 degrees often. The technology to manage them is available. The choice to use that technology rests with the battery and system builders.

Battle Born is a good company to work with for RV'ers who have limited knowledge about drop in Li batteries. They provide extensive advice on what works with specific legacy hardware. They will review your plans and make suggestions.

Generally one or two 100 amp hour Battle Born batteries will work with many modern lead acid battery chargers found in travel trailers. Some of the low end chargers with a minimum of bells and whistles work OK.

Larger battery banks usually require other system changes to protect the RV and to get reasonable performance from the expensive Li battery bank.

Motor homes may require special modifications with 200 amp hour or larger battery banks. The lead acid start batteries and automotive alternators are a significant issue to be accommodated.

Certainly large Li battery banks can destroy a motor home alternator under certain conditions.
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:41 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by kovalsmt View Post
I am considering changing my lead acid batteries with new Lithium batteries. I have a Magnum MS 2000 inverter charger with the Intellect control panel and 2 each 190w solar panels with a Go Power controller. Can I just install the new batteries, or will other changes be required?
And if other technical changes are required who would be most competent to make the changes?

Thanks to all for sharing your experience.

Kovals
2009 42' Monaco Camelot PDQ
425 Cummings ISL
F-150 Towd
Much more detail is required to provide adequate answers to your questions.

You can probably replace a 100 amp hour lead acid battery with a 100 amp hour drop in lithium battery. A 2009 Magnum battery charger may or may not properly support the lithium battery. The engine alternator with a lead acide start battery is unlikely to adequately support the battery. The solar controller may or may not support the lithium battery. Post exact makes and models of the components for better advice.

The larger the the lithium battery bank is, the more issues will have to be dealt with. At what point the lithium battery may damage the alternator depends on the exact equipment you have. At what point the old charging system may cause poor performance from the lithium battery also depends on the exact equipment.

To be sure a new system will work, you can adopt a new system designed for lithium batteries.

Engine charging of a lead acid start battery and a lithium house battery require separating for good system health. Many people use a battery to battery (B2B) charger to separate them. Some people simply disconnect the bridge circuit that joins the two together.

Drop in LiFePO4 lithium batteries need to be fully charged and held charging for a period of time to balance the cells. Different brands require different balancing times. Usually the balancing voltage must be 14.4 volts or so. Most legacy lead acid chargers will drop to 13.6 volts or so by that time, so balancing never occurs.

With the best built brands of batteries, lack of balancing during charging has less effect than with poorly built brands. But, all require balancing for long life.

So, both legacy chargers and solar controllers need to be capable of delivering more than 14 volts at the end of the charge cycle. I have a 30 amp 2018 WFCO charger. It will provide 14.4 volts for 4 hours maximum.

So the lithium battery would have to be fully charged and balanced with 4 hours. In many charge cycles, the WFCO would work OK with a 100 amp hour lithium battery. My WFCO would not work with a 300 amp hour lithium battery bank. It would almost never balance the battery bank.

Battle Born brand was one of the early drop-in Li battery suppliers. They provide expert advice to customers. They provide a webpage showing various models of legacy chargers that work with their batteries BMI. They also will evaluate your planned installation before you buy.

Many Chinese brands have been proven to be frauds. Batteries may not have advertised functions. They may not have been assembled properly or have other failings.

Certainly they do not provide good advice and warranty is non-existent.
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2023, 12:45 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 126
Thank you for your time and experience. I asked Battleborn about those questions and got the following reply.

1) You set up will charge to 100%. The Magnum inverter charger has a custom setting that can be deployed for full charging.
2) You can install as large of a bank as you'd like with no repercussions. The biggest misconception about lithium batteries is that they request or draw current from an alternator source; this is not true. If it were, we would simply regulate how much they took and remove the need from a charger in the first place. Battle Born Batteries simply take what they are given from the charging source. So, if in this example you have a small 5a DC to DC charger, the batteries will simply accept that 5a DC to DC charge coming from the starter battery. They will not request more than they are given. Now, one thing you do want to make sure if that this DC to DC charger can DISCONNECT at the right voltage; we like to see something around 13.3v or higher. The reason this is important is secondary to the starter battery(s). Most alternator charging systems disconnect the house batteries from starter battery(s) when the voltage hits around 12.8v. This means you would need to discharge the lithium batteries 80% before it disconnects from the starter battery. I think you are ok with your current set up being used, but wanted to provide some clarity on this topic and what we really look at for proper alternator charging with a lithium battery bank.
kovalsmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2023, 07:06 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,236
Battle Born Lithium LiFePO4 battery charging profile
https://battlebornbatteries.com/char...es-the-basics/
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2023, 10:07 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
153stars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Braidwood Il.
Posts: 8,300
A lot is covered already but the solar controller should top off to balance state often enough if MS2000 charge profile doesn't cover it. A Renology 40amp dc-dc charger is only about $120. Since lifepo4 charge and discharge curve is flat it's going to fully recharge pretty fast.
__________________
95 Monaco Crown Royale
M11 400hp, 4060 trans.
Aquahot, Generac Guardian7.5k
153stars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2023, 03:44 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Texas
Posts: 126
Yes that is it.
kovalsmt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
batteries, lithium



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lithium batteries with non-lithium. UncaMike RV Systems & Appliances 4 09-26-2021 12:49 PM
Changing to Lithium batteries. Bruceea Newmar Owner's Forum 1 05-08-2021 08:47 PM
Batteries to lithium or not to lithium sciblades RV Systems & Appliances 18 03-21-2021 10:40 PM
RV Lithium Lite & Lithium Super Upgrade Systems - Mike Mas Idleup iRV2.com General Discussion 10 02-20-2021 04:26 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.