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09-07-2021, 02:47 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishar
Funny thing, at least it's funny to me.
I'm looking at battery chargers/battery maintainers on Harbor Freight. The first one I look at has a wiring harness identical to a wiring harness I found in the battery bay when I replaced the stolen batteries.
I guess I should look around and see if the rest of it is there somewhere.
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Stolen batteries caught my eyes.
Did the RV charge your batteries BEFORE they were stolen?
How did you know the correct way to install the new batteries?
Could the charging infrastructure been damaged when the batteries were stolen?
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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09-08-2021, 08:56 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SE Arizona
Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougJames65
It is never a good idea to connect house and chassis batteries together to charge off the same charger. They are different types of batteries and will slowly kill each other if they are connected in parallel. I let the stock charger charge my house batteries and I have a battery maintainer connected to my chassis batteries when parked and hooked up at a park.
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If you install a combiner, such as a Magnum, it will float both banks at the highest level of either. It will automatically disconnect either bank if one of them goes bad. Very, very simple to install. 3 wires.
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09-09-2021, 04:44 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide
There was a recent thread on this subject, and according to Harry (Happycarz), the Camelot / HR Scepter didn't get the BIRD system until the '08 model years.
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Based on this comment and my observation of your large control board up front I agree you have an IRD. Only one way charging that is.
Just a quick note and you can dispose of any doubt by simply measuring the purple wire on that large solenoid.
If it is getting battery voltage around 13.5 then the solenoid should get warm to the touch and even hot if running 24/7. The solenoid is engaged by the purple wire with the aux start button as well as the IRD or if you had one the BIRD board.
There are time delays in play so you need to wait about two minutes for the little circuit board to engage the solenoid.
Try testing that purple wire under the following conditions. Connected to shoreline, engine off. Shoreline off, engine running. The generator is the same as shoreline with the exception IF the engine is running as well things may not get combined do to the design of the circuit.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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09-09-2021, 05:16 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Eastern outskirts of Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Every motorhome on the road connects the 2 battery banks together while traveling thru the isolation solenoid. That allows the alternator to charge and maintain all of the batteries.
If yours does not function that way, something is wrong.
Most, since the mid 2000s also connect them when together on shore power, allowing the onboard charger to keep the chassis battery charged.
How do charging batteries kill each other ?
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Twin boat - with all due respect, our ‘91 coach (Champion UltraStar) and our current ‘02 coach (Georgie Boy Landau) didn’t/
don’t connect the house and chassis batteries together for charging unless the Emergency Start switch is pressed (which closes the “trombetta relay” mentioned by the OP).
I added the IntelliTec BIRD to the UltraStar, and I ordered one but have not yet installed on the Landau.
The BIRD monitors the status of the battery voltages. If the chassis ignition switch is off, then it looks at the coach batteries to see if they have a charging voltage being applied. And it looks at the chassis batteries for their status - if they are low, then it closes the “trombetta” and charges both sets of batteries from either shore power or the generator.
On the flip side, if the ignition is On, the BIRD looks at the chassis battery to see if it’s being charged and if it’s charged and the house batteries are low, the BIRD closes the “trombetta” and lets the alternator charge both sets of batteries from the alternator.
Cut sheet with wiring diagram of the BIRD attached. SIMPLE INSTALL, 4 wires and mount inside the BCC.
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09-10-2021, 01:15 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crestview FLA
Posts: 1,428
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Ditto on the Trik-L-Start. I installed one in my coach, works like a charm.
__________________
08 Holiday Rambler Vacationer XL 38PLT Workhorse R-26 UFO gas pusher,
2014 Cadillac SRX AWD, SMI Smart Box braking system.
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09-10-2021, 03:47 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Pioneer, CA 95666
Posts: 501
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Ya know it was pretty simple for me. My 2004 Camelot is one that didn’t get the chassis charging system included in shore power. All I did was put a batter maintainer on my chassis bats. Plugged it into my bay where there is a ac outlet (2 doors down). Works great.
__________________
2004 Monaco Camelot 38PST 400ISL
2001 Jeep Cherokee Larado toad
Blue OX tow bar, Patriot brake box, 4" drop receiver
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09-13-2021, 03:32 PM
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#21
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Member
Monaco Owners Club Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1
Fishar-
Your first picture shows a small "daughtercard" attached to the Front Distribution Panel (FDP). The daughtercard is a small, credit-card-sized circuit board, located left-center of the FDP, above the upward-looping red cable on the left. Above the daughtercard the circuit board reads "Isolator Relay Delay".
If that is what is actually installed there, this is a device that allows charging from chassis to house. Often, you can swap out the IRD for a BIRD (Bi-directional Isolator Relay Delay) daughtercard. That will allow charging from house to chassis.
You can purchase an IRD or BIRD daughtercard new, from a company called Reliance CM. I can provide the BIRD part number and contact info for Reliance CM. Assuming the wiring is there, it should be a quick swap.
As far as the Trik-L-Start (and it's more-powerful cousin, the Amp-L-Start) goes, you buy them directly from the manufacturer, LSL Products (link here).
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l1v3fr33ord1,
Could you please provide contact information for Reliance CM and the part number for the BIRD daughter card. I would like to upgrade the existing system on our coach. I think I found Reliance CM online, but don't see how I can purchase parts from them.
Thanks!
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Steve & Bonnie, Australian Shepherds Daisy, Bailey & Stella
2020 Newmar London Aire 4579
2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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09-13-2021, 05:39 PM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 6,911
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Steve-
RelianceCM's phone number: (541) 758-8242. Part number MT970DC for the BIRD daughtercard. They are not normally a retail outfit, but i understand they will supply this part on request. Let us all know if you connect with them (or not).
I understand they make an IRD daughtercard, too, although I don't have that part number.
__________________
Mark
2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral 30PDD (Ford F-53 chassis)
2009 Honda Fit Sport
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09-19-2021, 04:22 PM
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#23
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Member
Monaco Owners Club Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Suffolk, VA
Posts: 43
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Reliance CM
I did contact Reliance CM and was able to purchase the daughter card for $180.00 plus $18.89 shipping. I was told it would be a direct replacement, no additional wiring would be needed. This is a bit pricey since Amazon offers an Intellitec B.I.R.D.-D2 for $102.67, but I would have to modify my wiring to use the Intellitec device. Reliance does make the IRD daughter card, but the MT970 is the only part they are allowed to sell to the general public. If you want the IRD daughter card, you have to go through REV. I have attached the two documents on the MT970 that Reliance CM sent.
__________________
Steve & Bonnie, Australian Shepherds Daisy, Bailey & Stella
2020 Newmar London Aire 4579
2023 Jeep Grand Cherokee
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09-20-2021, 07:46 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Eastern outskirts of Dallas, TX
Posts: 4,469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottons
I did contact Reliance CM and was able to purchase the daughter card for $180.00 plus $18.89 shipping. I was told it would be a direct replacement, no additional wiring would be needed. This is a bit pricey since Amazon offers an Intellitec B.I.R.D.-D2 for $102.67, but I would have to modify my wiring to use the Intellitec device. Reliance does make the IRD daughter card, but the MT970 is the only part they are allowed to sell to the general public. If you want the IRD daughter card, you have to go through REV. I have attached the two documents on the MT970 that Reliance CM sent.
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Yep, those documents pretty much explain exactly what Intellitec’s B.I.R.D. does.
It may be a little less expensive, but less Plug’n’Play than the MT970.
FWIW - the B.I.R.D. is four wires as well, and does not require any wiring mods - it’s always easy to find a ground, it’s fairly easy to find the Emergency Start solenoid coil terminal in the BCC to connect to, then once you connect that wire, another wire connected to coach battery side of that solenoid, and then a wire to a switched ignition terminal that normally can be found “under the hood”.
Without a picture, curious if the MT970 might be a B.I.R.D. without the case?
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02-26-2022, 03:57 PM
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#25
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Clermont, FL
Posts: 89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Every motorhome on the road connects the 2 battery banks together while traveling thru the isolation solenoid. That allows the alternator to charge and maintain all of the batteries.
If yours does not function that way, something is wrong.
Most, since the mid 2000s also connect them when together on shore power, allowing the onboard charger to keep the chassis battery charged.
How do charging batteries kill each other ?
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Talking about connecting in parallel while not being charged. If one battery is 12.1 volts and the other is 12.7 volts and they are left connected together with no charging voltage the 12.7 volt battery will be charging the 12.1 volt battery. If they sit this way for 4 weeks with no charger they will both end up at 0.0 volts each, this is how they can kill each other.
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02-26-2022, 04:16 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishar
Since I found my chassis batteries dead as a hammer a few weeks ago this obviously isn't happening in my coach.
My owner manual says
"For example: While the motorhome is driven the alternator on the engine will charge the house batteries. Likewise, while the motorhome is plugged into shore power, or the generator is running, the engine batteries are being charged. Each system will supply 12 Volt DC power to the 12 Volt DC distribution panels."
I've searched here and other places and just become confused, ird, bird, and so on.
In my rear electrical bay I see a device called trombetta. Is this the device I'm looking for that could be bad and not allowing my chassis batteries to charge from shore power? I see no large devices in my front electrical bay.
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Yes, the trombetta (continous-duty solenoid), when energized, connects both battery banks.
For a temporary work-around, simply use a set of jumper cables while on shore power.
I agree with Arch Hoagland too.
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2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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02-26-2022, 07:05 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougJames65
Talking about connecting in parallel while not being charged. If one battery is 12.1 volts and the other is 12.7 volts and they are left connected together with no charging voltage the 12.7 volt battery will be charging the 12.1 volt battery. If they sit this way for 4 weeks with no charger they will both end up at 0.0 volts each, this is how they can kill each other.
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How come that doesn't happen with parallel start or house batteries ?
They don't kill each other, they equalize.
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