Chassis batteries not charging

[Retired tom]

2008 Monaco diplomat wouldn't start, used house battery boost switch and coach started. Let coach run 10 minutes and restarted fine. After coach Sat 4 days with coach plugged to electric power supply noticed chassis battery voltage down to 11 volts. What should I check?

[bdpreece]

Most probably the Trombetta solenoid
https://www.ebay.com/itm/152290406052.

That's what fixed mine.

[jacwjames]

If you don't have it here is a link to where you can download a copy of your operating manual.

https://www.monacocoach.com/rv-owners-manuals


It has sections on both the house and chassis battery systems.

On page 175 it discusses the operation of the BIRD which will control an isolation solenoid that will allow both the house and chassis batteries to charge if on shore power and/or driving.

Te isolation solenoid may not be working properly or the BIRD may not be sending a signal.

You'll have to do some voltage testing to see what may be wrong.

[twinboat]

The boost solenoid is also the charging solenoid. If the boost works each time you use it, its probably not the big boy solenoid.

The BIRD sends a signal to the solenoid if it senses 13.3 volts on a charging battery bank. Less then 13.2 and it won't work.

First thing I would check is the charging voltage of the house batteries while on shore power.
If less then 13.2 volts, unplug the BTS ( battery temp sensor) from the inverter/charger, wait a few minutes and test again.

If the voltage rises above 13.3 volts, and the chassis batteries start charging, the BTS is bad.

If that don't do it, report your finding.

[Retired tom]

How will I identify the bts

[jacwjames]

On my coach the battery temperature sensor is nestled in between the batteries and is connected with a wire that goes to the inverter panel. Mine was glued to the side of one of the batteries, but when I changed batteries I put it between two of the batteries.



I would check the charge rate of the house batteries first. Then compare to the chassis battery voltage.

[twinboat]

It's a phone jack plug on the inverter/charger, labeled BTS.

The actual sensors look different in different years.

Google Xantrex or Magnum BTS.

[96 Wideglide]

It will be the yellow labeled phone jack plug on your Magnum inverter.

[YC1]

This is a bit of a long read but since we have sister ships be patient and read it through. There is diagnosing information in it. The beginning may throw you off a bit but be patient.

I have not posted this in a long while so it may benefit others as well.
__________________________________________________ _______-

2008 HR Endeavor 40SKQ


Hi folks, welcome to the forum.

First let’s clear up the "Big Boy" question. It is like calling all tissues Kleenex.

To be specific there are several variations of the "Big Boy" solenoid. The solenoid is a very simple electric switch controlled by a 12-volt source. See, even the Big Boy is not always called that. As an electronic tech I will refer to it as the relay. How's that for confusion.

So, Big Boy, Solenoid, Relay, and often because of the mfgr of these they are called Trombetta relays.

How these relays are activated can be complex or as simple as sending 12 volts and ground to them.

You will notice on your relay in the battery compartment that there are two wires. One is likely purple. In any case one is ground and the other is switched 12 volts. The purple wire is the switched voltage in most cases.

Again, 12 volts is sent to the purple wire and the big relay goes clunk and makes contact between the large wires thus combining the batteries.

That relay under normal working conditions will get very warm or even hot to the touch if it runs for several hours. For example, if things are working properly and you are using shoreline it will be working 24/7 and get hot to the touch. This is normal.

So, the heart of the system is that relay on the back being controlled by 12 volts. How and where that 12-volt control comes from can be the tricky part to understand...

We will get to the BIRD part shortly.

First, if the engine is running and after a few minutes of warming up and the grid heater stops loading down the battery, voltage on the chassis batteries should rise enough to engage the BIRD device and send the 12 volts to the relay. This is the “Delay” part of the bird. It would not make sense to combine the batteries without the alternator having brought up chassis batteries a bit or for extreme loads such as the grid heater to be gone. .

So, let’s take the situation where your chassis batteries have been run down for some reason. You left the radio on for two days etc.

Pressing and holding the Aux start button bypasses the fancy “BIRD” circuitry and sends 12 volts directly to the relay in the battery compartment. This combines the battery banks just as a set of jumper cables would.

Now that we understand how the relay functions let’s begin managing when it is turned on. We already discussed how the “Aux” start button controls it. That is a manual function and can easily be tested by listening to the relay as someone presses the button. If no clunk is heard, then the relay is most likely already activated. To test this without a meter, simply remove the purple wire. Wear some gloves because there will be a tiny static like discharge that can surprise you. If you have a meter you can measure the voltage on the little terminals. You can also carefully feel the relay to see if it is warm or hot IF it has been engaged for some time.

Here is how the Bi-Directional Relay Delay functions to control that purple wire.

Keep in mind the “DELAY” part as you are troubleshooting. It can take a couple of minutes for it to activate. No sense in combining batteries if the first bank being charged is not up enough.

Parked with nothing running and no shoreline the bird is asleep. No combining. However, if you have solar that is indeed a charging source and may be enough to activate the bird.

Now you plug into shoreline. The little circuit board in the front run panel wakes up and sees that your converter is doing a fine job of charging the house batteries. The converter is connected directly to them via cutoff switches and fuses or circuit breakers. The BIRD now sends voltage to the relay and engages it, thus combining the batteries.

Time to leave, shoreline is disconnected so the BIRD drops out the control voltage. You fire up the big engine and in a couple of minutes the BIRD sees a nice alternator doing its thing. Time to send voltage to the relay again.

We have just discussed the BI-directional part of the BIRD. This demonstrates how it can work from one set of battery banks to the other depending on which one is getting the charge.

Arriving at your favorite boon docking place you decide to fire up the generator to run some heavy loads. This generator is the same thing as having shoreline power, so it works as described before.

So, you spend the weekend without the generator running anymore and enjoy the quiet along with some tv and perhaps running the microwave on the inverter. Inverter of course not the converter. They can be combined in one box and I can address that more if needed. Inverters are real battery hogs so now you have a very large set of batteries.

You are packed, and the big engine is started, thus providing a big enough voltage to activate the BIRD. You are now charging 6 batteries or more and the alternator is straining. This is rough on the alternator, so you follow the manufacture and my advice and fire up the generator so the “converter” comes alive and supplies voltage to the drained house batteries.

At this stage you have two sources of charging voltage. The converter via the generator, and the alternator. This poses a bit of an issue with the alternator and can cause it to show a fault. However, the BIRD is rather smart and knows the engine is running along with the generator. With these two competing charging sources it simply turns the Relay off and allows each battery bank to be charged separately.

Now that you understand how it works, here is a scenario that could get you home if your alternator dies. Just start the generator and prop the AUX button up so it forces the banks to combine. Since your alternator is offline there will not be any conflicts. This will easily get you any distance you wish to travel. The bird might see the charging voltage from the generator/converter and pull the relay in on its own but holding the switch will assure it gets charged.

Of course, you could put a small jumper from 12 volts to the purple wire on the relay and do the same without pushing the button.

Now you understand how, when, and why the relay is activated. What you don’t know is if it is actually working. The relay is a very simple device inside. It is a magnet that pulls a contact across the two large wires connected to it. Very often these contacts burn and fail to make contact. This can be intermittent and drive a technician crazy.

If the relay is activated there is either a charging source or the AUX button is being held down. When it is activated it is like placing a nail across the two large terminals. So you should see the exact same voltage on each of the large terminals and at the batteries. If you do not see the exact same voltage across the large terminals, then the relay is bad.

This can be a bit tricky if both banks of batteries have been fully charged and the relay is making contact but a poor one. You will see the same voltage on each large terminal and think the relay is ok. You need to run one bank down a bit so there will be lots of current trying to charge for an accurate assessment.

If you are having one bank of batteries low after having a charging source for several hours and you find voltage on the purple wire then the relay is bad.,

These relays are a known source of problem and I had a heck of a time understanding how the system works. I am a senior certified electronic tech and extremely qualified to work on such a simple system as long as I know how it is supposed to function. I did not have that information in 2008.

Replacing the relay is easy and cheap as things go on these things. Be sure to turn both battery banks off and I would highly recommend removing the negative leads of each bank for additional safety. You can weld with these battery cables so do be careful.

Once you replace the relay, do yourself and us a favor by taking the old one apart and inspecting the inside.

The actual BIRD control board is a common failure item too but has become difficult to source. I found one on e-bay.

Don’t despair if that is the problem because there are plenty of other solutions available.

There is another relay that has nothing to do with the charging system but gives plenty of problems. It is the “Salesman” switch/relay. It is the relay controlled by the switch by the door or nearby. The relay is in the box up front near the BIRD board. The BIRD board is a small board. The relay is on the bottom left.
This thing controls lots of functions and can go bad anytime. Simply bypassing it with a jumper is easy and permanent fix if it fails.


Happy Trails,
Myron
08 Endeavor

[Retired tom]

Thanks info was very helpful, i do not have voltage at purple wire, ran a jumper to solenoid got a clunk, batteries are charging. What do you think is the problem

[twinboat]

What Voltages are the house batteries charging at ?
The controller on the other end of the purple wire is looking for 13.2 or more volts.

[Retired tom]

I think they were above 13.2

[Retired tom]

Re checked 13.5 volts

[kenwyatt]

Here’s some information about charging.