Echo vs Trickle Charger?

[wa8yxm]

First, try Trick-L-Start, it works just like the Echo, only seems to be lower cost.

Trickle chargers (The Trick-L-Start is NOT a trickle charger, neither is the echo) charge the battery at a very low current, typically single digit amps. and they keep charging Till the battery is full up, then they over charge and may damage the battery.

The Trick-L-Start and Echo Charger both take advantage of the 3-stage converter on the house system,, They should not over charge since once the batteries (All of 'em) are full up the house charger knows enough to quit. And.. Least someone yammer "What if the starting battery is near full and the house are run down?" Well, in that case the trick-lstart and echo charger will wait for the house battery to catch up before they start charging.

[ImagineIF]

Most MH manufactures make thier BIRD far too complex. Others don't provide a means of charging the chassis battery when you're plugged in to commercial power. The simplest and most capable solutionis to use this: http://www.bluesea.com/products/7622..._-_12V_DC_500A

Charges both banks only when need it, combines batteries for starting boost power, and can handle 500A. On top of its capabilities it's made but a leading supplier to the harsh marine environment.

[bukzin]

Originally Posted by Diplomat Don

bukzin....I believe yours should be charging the chassis batteries.

The IRD does not seem to be charging them.

If the coach sits for more that a few days I need to use
the boost switch to start the engine.

Any way to test my IRD?

[bukzin]

Originally Posted by Willie300s

Mel
If I drove the MH every day as I do my car there would be no need for the Echo charger. But the MH sits for weeks and both the chassis and house batteries tend to run down even with the disconnect switches turned off. Ocassionally I will exercize the generator which charges the house batteries but not the chassis batteries. When camping and plugged in the house batteries will also charge but not the chassis batteries. The Echo will allow me to charge both batteries under either of these conditions.

I haven't confirmed it but I think when I switch off the battery
disconnects my 2006 Magnum charger is not charging either the house
or chassis banks.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Willie300s

Mel
If I drove the MH every day as I do my car there would be no need for the Echo charger. But the MH sits for weeks and both the chassis and house batteries tend to run down even with the disconnect switches turned off. Ocassionally I will exercize the generator which charges the house batteries but not the chassis batteries. When camping and plugged in the house batteries will also charge but not the chassis batteries. The Echo will allow me to charge both batteries under either of these conditions.

Willie300s
Apparently I have had some "wiz-bang" batteries, (or "very good battery luck") ...and you are having very bad luck with your batteries.

My original pair of Interstate maintenance free chassis batteries lasted 11 years.
I do not know what the original owner did in '96-'00.
For the first 7 years that I owned the coach, ('01-'07), they were stored, hooked up in my coach.... for the first 3 Wisconsin winters, (Oct-April, 01-'03)..... and then and for the months of Oct, Nov, Dec and March April, May, (in '02-'07).
They never discharged to the point that they did not start the engine.

The replacements are now 6 years old, and have been stored the same way, with no starting problems.

IMO, if your chassis battery tends "to run down" in weeks, you have a bigger problem than an Echo, or a trickle, charger will cure.

Mel
'96 Safari, 132k miles, (105 k mine)

[Gorlininc]

To check your IRD is easy.

With the engine off and the shore power on, your inverter should be charging the house batteries. When the voltage goes above 13.4 volts the IRD activates the big boy solenoid. The voltage on the chassis batteries should also be the same as the house batteries. The big boy solenoid do go bad and the contacts are silver and also can go bad. I replaced mine 6 months ago when the voltage drop on the chassis vs the house batteries is more than .2 or .3 volts.
Rick

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Gorlininc

To check your IRD is easy.

Rick
What is an IRD??
Is it like a TRW?
Mel

[Gorlininc]

Hi Me

IRD is Isolator Relay Delay. Not sure what you have depending on your model and year Monaco.
In my 2001 Diplomat it's located in my battery compartment. It is connected to a big boy relay. It also is the relay (solenoid) that the power boost switch on your dash uses to connect the chassis batteries and house batteries in case of dead chassis batteries to start the engine.
When your engine is running and the chassis batteries are above 13.4 volts, the IRD closes the big boy relay (after a 2 minute delay) and also charges the house batteries while the engine is running.
When on shore power and the engine is off, the inverter charges the house batteries but not the chassis batteries. So some people add an echo charger or other means that keeps your chassis batteries charged off of the house batteries while on shore power.
Many later year Monacos have a BIRD (bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay) it works like the IRD but it does charge the chassis batteries while on shore power by activating the big boy relay, thereby connecting both banks of batteries.
Rick

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Gorlininc

Hi Me

IRD is Isolator Relay Delay. Not sure what you have depending on your model and year Monaco.
In my 2001 Diplomat it's located in my battery compartment. It is connected to a big boy relay. It also is the relay (solenoid) that the power boost switch on your dash uses to connect the chassis batteries and house batteries in case of dead chassis batteries to start the engine.
When your engine is running and the chassis batteries are above 13.4 volts, the IRD closes the big boy relay (after a 2 minute delay) and also charges the house batteries while the engine is running.
When on shore power and the engine is off, the inverter charges the house batteries but not the chassis batteries. So some people add an echo charger or other means that keeps your chassis batteries charged off of the house batteries while on shore power.
Many later year Monacos have a BIRD (bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay) it works like a IRD but it does charge the chassis batteries while on shore power by activating the big boy relay, thereby connecting both banks of batteries.
Rick

Rick
Thank you.

Although I do not have a Monaco, I have a '96 Safari, (which in many ways similar to like year Monacos).
I like to learn what I can about various RVs and RV systems.

My coach uses a SSDI to isolate the battery banks and distribute the charge from the alternator as needed, (which means my coach needs neither an Isolator Relay Delay or a Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay).
A Solid State Diode Isolator draws no current from the batteries, has no moving parts or mechanical electric contacts, and are seldom problematic.

My coach does have a BBS, (battery boost solenoid), which I test occasionally, but have never needed/used.

Thanks again.
Mel
'96 Safari Sahara, 132k miles

[Gorlininc]

Hi Mel.

Apparently Monaco uses the cheapest system. I don't like the fact a big boy solenoid connects the batteries for long periods. As a booster relay I can understand the need for the high current.
The echo charger like your SSDI is an electronic device that will transfer up to 15 amps from one bank of batteries to another set of batteries with no solenoid. A much more efficient way than using .3 amps holding the big boy closed.
You got me curious about your system. I'll have to investigate it.
Thanks
Rick

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Gorlininc

Hi Mel.

Apparently Monaco uses the cheapest system. I don't like the fact a big boy solenoid connects the batteries for long periods. As a booster relay I can understand the need for the high current.
The echo charger like your SSDI is an electronic device that will transfer up to 15 amps from one bank of batteries to another set of batteries with no solenoid. A much more efficient way than using .3 amps holding the big boy closed.
You got me curious about your system. I'll have to investigate it.
Thanks
Rick

Rick
I assume that the IRD and BIRD use "new and improved" technology, (but "new and improved" is not necessarily "better").
Recently, when I upgraded my 100A alternator to 130A, I replaced my original 120A solid state isolator with a new 140A NOCO isolator.
See page 6 of this pdf: https://www.google.com/#bav=on.2,or....=noco+isolator
Mel
'96 Safari

[Gorlininc]

Thanks Mel.

I'll study the link
Rick

[Dutch Star Don]

Mel......I think were talking apples and oranges here. You're talking about how your alternator charges the batteries depending on which bank is low. We're talking about how the coach inverter/charger works when on SHORE power. Most coaches only charge the house batteries when on shore power. This causes the chassis batteries to go low from residual draw of electronic items that are wired to the chassis batteries.

The newer BIRD is suppose to charge the chassis batteries while on SHORE power, if it's working correctly. For those of us without a BIRD, a charger/battery combiner is needed like a TrikLStart, Magnum or Xantrex unit.

You say your batteries don't go dead which is good, but the newer coaches run a lot more electronics than the older coaches and they run them off of the chassis batteries.

[bukzin]

Don, if money were no object, which of the 3 would you get?


"The newer BIRD is suppose to charge the chassis batteries while on SHORE power, if it's working correctly. For those of us without a BIRD, a charger/battery combiner is needed like a TrikLStart, Magnum or Xantrex unit."