Community Forums

Ted DuPuis · 09-27-2022, 04:44 AM

Thanks, Frank. It's been a lot of work but I really am happy with the end result.

Sinyyl · 09-27-2022, 03:21 PM

It's a cool idea to switch to electric rad van. I thought about this too, since my coach is also suffering some cooling issue. Electric fan will most be a lot more efficient than hydralic fans let alome it's easiser to control and can be more powerful if you get the right ones. Looks like you nailed it, the results are like I would thought.
But for me, it was just too much trouble, and it is not a urgent need for me. Glad to see it worked out for you!

Ted DuPuis · 09-28-2022, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinyyl

It's a cool idea to switch to electric rad van. I thought about this too, since my coach is also suffering some cooling issue. Electric fan will most be a lot more efficient than hydralic fans let alome it's easiser to control and can be more powerful if you get the right ones. Looks like you nailed it, the results are like I would thought.
But for me, it was just too much trouble, and it is not a urgent need for me. Glad to see it worked out for you!

I appreciate it. And yes, it was a lot of work. For me, it's been great. It was also a significant investment (mostly in time) and something that I'm looking to enjoy the benefits of for some time. We figure this RV is sticking around until the kids are in college barring an unexpected wreck or other issue, which gives us a good number of years remaining. Investments now will be used for some time to come.

1994mci · 12-22-2022, 06:29 AM

I have a 1994 mci 6v92. And have since removed the old mitre box squirrel cage fan set up in the of the bus to upgrade the system overall. I also removed the old hvac system completely. Copper lines included. As well as the old ac motor.

I spoke to mci and any records of what cfm the fan produced was on paper and is long since gone. 30 yrs ago is forever ago. So i have been calling everywhere to find anyone that may know something. I am converting the mitre box setup removing and replacing it witb electric fans. The ones i picked out were rated at 3000cfm each. 12v. I have x6 of them. The bus has a 6v92 2 stroke in it with dual radiators one on each side.

I posted this already in the forums but its not something that is a regular nodification here. I also am on busnuts and bus conversion magazine as well and it hasnt been met with anyone that knows much about it

. It seels like you have met with some success at the engineering side of doing this with keeping your engine cool and using electtic fans. I am also upgrading the alternator to 2 newer ones. One is a 24v 330a and the other or others will be a 12v 270a or x2 12v 170a. Just have to find some pulley wheels for the 2 170a ones. The electric fans as some people think do not run off the alternators but the batteries. Some of the RVs have only 2 batteries some have 4. That being said i think i am putting in 6-8. agm type batteries.

My concern is cooling the bus with the fans i have. As mentioned each one is rated at 3000cfm. I dont know what the other set up was rated for and the information is long since gone. I can build the shrouds for them. Bend some sheet metal mouth the fans to it and then the radiators. I have also made it sort of a closed system now from removing the copper pipes that have antifreeze traveling all the way to the front of the bus and back for heating when its cold and not to cool the bus. Which helps by reducing the volume on the water pump. So the coolant doesnt have to travel all around now. However that did minimally aide in cooling as it did help with heat dissapation from it traveling the route it did.

I have seen any oil coolers on the bus or trans coolers either. The old alternator was oiled cooled but according to mci and why i replaced it, is obsolete and cant be rebuilt. So its being upgraded to an air cooled model.

How has your electric fans been holding up. Wat are they rated for as far as cfm.

Ted DuPuis · 12-29-2022, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1994mci

I have a 1994 mci 6v92. And have since removed the old mitre box squirrel cage fan set up in the of the bus to upgrade the system overall. I also removed the old hvac system completely. Copper lines included. As well as the old ac motor.

I spoke to mci and any records of what cfm the fan produced was on paper and is long since gone. 30 yrs ago is forever ago. So i have been calling everywhere to find anyone that may know something. I am converting the mitre box setup removing and replacing it witb electric fans. The ones i picked out were rated at 3000cfm each. 12v. I have x6 of them. The bus has a 6v92 2 stroke in it with dual radiators one on each side.

I posted this already in the forums but its not something that is a regular nodification here. I also am on busnuts and bus conversion magazine as well and it hasnt been met with anyone that knows much about it

. It seels like you have met with some success at the engineering side of doing this with keeping your engine cool and using electtic fans. I am also upgrading the alternator to 2 newer ones. One is a 24v 330a and the other or others will be a 12v 270a or x2 12v 170a. Just have to find some pulley wheels for the 2 170a ones. The electric fans as some people think do not run off the alternators but the batteries. Some of the RVs have only 2 batteries some have 4. That being said i think i am putting in 6-8. agm type batteries.

My concern is cooling the bus with the fans i have. As mentioned each one is rated at 3000cfm. I dont know what the other set up was rated for and the information is long since gone. I can build the shrouds for them. Bend some sheet metal mouth the fans to it and then the radiators. I have also made it sort of a closed system now from removing the copper pipes that have antifreeze traveling all the way to the front of the bus and back for heating when its cold and not to cool the bus. Which helps by reducing the volume on the water pump. So the coolant doesnt have to travel all around now. However that did minimally aide in cooling as it did help with heat dissapation from it traveling the route it did.

I have seen any oil coolers on the bus or trans coolers either. The old alternator was oiled cooled but according to mci and why i replaced it, is obsolete and cant be rebuilt. So its being upgraded to an air cooled model.

How has your electric fans been holding up. Wat are they rated for as far as cfm.

I'm marginally familiar with the 2-stroke MCI setups so I have a rough idea of how the engine cooling is set up on them and what you're talking about. One thing to keep in mind is that the 2-stroke Detroits apparently are harder on cooling systems than a 4-stroke engine, at least that's what I've read who've converted 2-strokes to Series 60s. It makes sense to me given the setup. That said, anything can be done. Your alternator setup sounds like it should produce enough power to run the fans so I think you're on the right track with that.

At 18,000 CFM among 6 fans I think you probably have a good place to start. I wasn't able to find exact ratings for my fans, but my general understanding from what I could find on Google searches was that I have 10-12k CFM total for the radiator fans. However, keep in mind that I then have another 3-4k CFM worth of cooling in my transmission and oil coolers. If those are being cooled as part of the coolant load, you should take that into account and see about adding some cooling capability there. That's helped quite a bit on my bus.

I believe your 6V92 on that bus would be turbocharged, but not intercooled. If that's the case, you may want to see if there is a way to add an intercooler. Not only would that help engine performance, it would ultimately reduce your overall heat load by reducing induction air temps and then meaning you'd need less boost (and thus also less exhaust backpressure/lower EGTs).

In my case, I left the forward coolant-driven heater in place, and I have the hoses going all the way from the engine in back towards the front. I insulated the hoses going forward to improve the effectiveness of the heater (this helped tremendously). I have thought about adding some finned heat exchangers on the way back to help provide some more cooling dissipation load. I'm not sure what your total HVAC setup is looking like, but for me I like having the engine-driven heating.

I've been extremely happy with the performance of this setup on my RV and how much nicer it's made riding, so I'm happy to answer any questions on this and give you my thoughts. Also not sure if you've seen the videos I posted on my YouTube channel, but I've got a good amount of detail on there.

1994mci · 12-31-2022, 05:04 AM

is there an intercooler for the 6v92? where could i look to find a better oil cooler(s). i'm also upgrading the intake by reducing the route air gets to the turbo. only has one turbo. i'm also also going to be using something called engine ice to help cool it by fluid. also also also going to be making some air scoops sort of like forced induction into the radiators. the intake will be an open air set up. i'm upgrading the alternator to a higher output versus the 270a to over 400a. with a 8 battery bank setup so as not to cause the alternator to have so much draw. originally it was 2 batteries with a 24v 270a alternator. thats being changed and upgraded.

Ted DuPuis · 12-31-2022, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1994mci

is there an intercooler for the 6v92? where could i look to find a better oil cooler(s). i'm also upgrading the intake by reducing the route air gets to the turbo. only has one turbo. i'm also also going to be using something called engine ice to help cool it by fluid. also also also going to be making some air scoops sort of like forced induction into the radiators. the intake will be an open air set up. i'm upgrading the alternator to a higher output versus the 270a to over 400a. with a 8 battery bank setup so as not to cause the alternator to have so much draw. originally it was 2 batteries with a 24v 270a alternator. thats being changed and upgraded.

Any of the things I mentioned you are likely going to have to look at doing on your own and figuring out custom ways to do this using generic/aftermarket/off-the-shelf parts. If you look at my YouTube channel (the mods have told me not to make direct links to my videos, but the channel link is in my signature) you can see videos on some of the things that I did. I've got a video that's airing at some point in the next couple of weeks on the oil cooler setup I made for my 3126B, but my transmission coolers and other items are already covered.

I am a fan of the Derale coolers with built-in fans (P/N 15875 or 15876 are what I used, depending on fitting size), as the locations I used didn't have good natural airflow, or I didn't want to look at overcooling things.

Doing some sort of forced/scooped air induction to help cool the radiators further is a good idea. I don't really have a way to do this on my bus being a rear radiator setup, but you should be able to make some good sized fiberglass or metal scoops for that. Yes, that will help cooling and help the performance of your fans. At idle I found that very little airflow is required, and the fans normally turn off. When you're moving and making power is when the engines put out more heat.

Regarding the turbo inlet, I would be careful there. Shorter inlet to the turbo is not necessarily better, as you do not want to be drawing hot air in from the engine compartment. However, you do want to minimize the pressure ratio the turbo has to run to produce that boost as it will reduce heat. What I did on my bus was I added a big fiberglass scoop to the turbo inlet. That was very helpful in reducing pressure ratio and EGTs. IATs a bit as well although not quite as much.

Now intercoolers, I have to think on that a bit - I'm not a Detroit 2-stroke expert. There are some good groups that focus on those, "Detroit Diesel Enthusiast" is one on Facebook (if you use that) that I'm a member of. My recollection is that some of them have a built-in water to air intercooler that uses engine coolant, not sure if yours would or not. This is not really what you want since the water is going to be engine temperature, and so while it may cool the air some, it won't cool it as much as a good air-to-air intercooler, or something else with a cooling medium that's closer to ambient temperature. One trick that some people do on cars that have this setup from the factory is they divorce the coolant flow paths and create a separate setup with its own water pump and reservoir. Another option, if you could find a place to put it, would be to change around the air flow to an air-to-air intercooler. Or, add a water to air intercooler that's separate and perhaps higher efficiency, and run a separate flow system for that.

Some ideas for you to work on. I'd attack this one system at a time. Your transmission cooler hoses should be pretty easy to find and separate out. Oil coolers, I'm not sure where those are on 2-strokes and you may find yourself needing to do something custom like I did if you want to add cooling there.

Ted DuPuis · 01-22-2023, 07:40 PM

I'm making a couple of updates to this over the winter after some more miles on the setup.

First one is I'm doing what Cat doesn't recommend and I'm putting in 180F thermostats to replace the stock ones (which are supposedly 190F, but were labeled 90C when I removed them). My rationale for this is that in a front-engine, front-radiator setup, there is a lot of excess cooling air flow under normal driving conditions. As such, typically an engine will run at there thermostat rated temperature, which is the point where it begins to open. However, it doesn't fully open until something around 10-20 degrees later (I've seen varying reports as it pertains to the Cat thermostats), and within that range that that coolant flow is continuing to increase as the engine temperature gets warmer.

When you're looking at engine temperature, essentially it comes down to equilibrium being when the heat dissipated is equal to the heat produced, and that comes down to both coolant flow through the radiator as well as air flow across the radiator (and other factors, but let's just focus on these two). With my electric fan setup in rear radiator setup, the fans will work most effectively when the coolant flow is at its max, and since I don't have excess airflow normally, I don't think I will see the engine running "too cool" except perhaps in very cold temperatures, which really I don't drive in all that much.

A friend of mine who's a big Amsoil fan also told me that if I'd throw in some of their Dominator coolant additive, he'd send some to me just to see what I thought of it. So I went ahead and threw that in as well as coolant. Their claim is that when mixed with coolant they saw a 7 degree reduction in steady state temperature, and also claim the heater works better/sooner (basically for the same reason - promoting heat transfer between the coolant and the metal). Obviously this will not be a test of that by itself, but I figure I'll try it out with the thermostat change.

Still very happy with this setup, just continuing to tweak it for the upcoming season.

mkdunn · 01-22-2023, 11:33 PM

Ted, I wanted to say thanks for the updates. Really enjoy seeing your work.

Ted DuPuis · 01-23-2023, 05:31 AM

Glad you’ve been enjoying it.

I’ve done a lot of projects (and have a lot more) but this has been a really fulfilling and satisfying one for many reasons.

ahopper89 · 01-31-2023, 12:45 PM

Ted, what fans did you use for the pullers on the radiator?

Ted DuPuis · 01-31-2023, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahopper89

Ted, what fans did you use for the pullers on the radiator?

I bought tow sets of fans (with shrouds) for a 2005-2007(ish) Suburban/Escalade. These are the exact ones I used:

https://amzn.to/3tobu55

My YouTube channel (link in my signature) has several videos on the install with parts lists.

One thing I would say - I used Dorman fans, and they seem to have an issue where, when they get hot, they increase the current draw. Not enough to blow my fuses, but enough to overload the controllers I used. This only happens when the coolant and intake air temperature get hot (above around 210F) because then the airflow going over the fans gets really hot. If I just leave the fans on full blast with the engine off (and thus cool air), they will run forever.

I don't know if OEM fans would have this issue, but one of my friends who's a mechanic has said he's found the Dorman fans can blow fuses vs. stock fans before. The fans themselves work great and flow plenty of air - Dorman claims they should flow equal to or more than stock - but because they overload the controllers I have to limit them to 70% PWM.

I would still use the fans, but there are Ford controllers that are rated to higher amperage than these Mazda controllers I used. However I'm also making some other changes and I may be able to increase the PWM limit on the fans, we'll see. Lots of things influence other things.

Ted DuPuis · 03-04-2023, 06:46 AM

I finally got to test drive the bus after a bunch of other work done. The initial thoughts are that the cooling system is working as I had expected. The 180 thermostats start opening at 180, but what ends up happening is not much cooling happens until the fans turn on at around 195. However when the fans do turn on, they're more effective. Remember my fans are on a PWM setup so they don't simply turn on or off, at 195F they're only turning on at a small amount. That same airflow is working with full coolant flow. End result, the engine seems to be sitting around 195F as I'd been hoping. We'll see how this ends up working out on a longer trip. At the end of the day once you have full coolant flow and full airflow, the temps will be what they'll be. But with also having cooler temps coming out of the turbo (thanks to a new and more efficient turbocharger) that should further help things.

I'm excited to see how this does on the next trip and have a few ideas for other adjustments.

Fffrank · 03-06-2023, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted DuPuis

I finally got to test drive the bus after a bunch of other work done. The initial thoughts are that the cooling system is working as I had expected. The 180 thermostats start opening at 180, but what ends up happening is not much cooling happens until the fans turn on at around 195. However when the fans do turn on, they're more effective. Remember my fans are on a PWM setup so they don't simply turn on or off, at 195F they're only turning on at a small amount. That same airflow is working with full coolant flow. End result, the engine seems to be sitting around 195F as I'd been hoping. We'll see how this ends up working out on a longer trip. At the end of the day once you have full coolant flow and full airflow, the temps will be what they'll be. But with also having cooler temps coming out of the turbo (thanks to a new and more efficient turbocharger) that should further help things.

I'm excited to see how this does on the next trip and have a few ideas for other adjustments.

Curious, Ted - You've put a lot of time and $ into this project. It's cool and I'm really glad it's been successful! But, what improvements have you seen in regards to power and/or fuel economy?