Community Forums

vito.a · 12-31-2021, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08Navigator

Wow, never thought that the fan would break apart...maybe I would be better off just putting a few automotive style electric fans on and canning the entire hydraulic mess, sounds like it would be significantly more efficient? Much simpler and less stuff to break or fail plus nothing gobbling up HP. Thanks for the input!!

There's another guy on this forum with a smaller diesel engine trying to fit automotive electric fans to his motor home. But his engine is half the size of your 600hp ISX. I'm not sure you could fit enough electric fans in there to adequately cool your large engine climbing a mountain on a hot day. The fans also have to pull air through the charge air cooler and then that large radiator.

hypoxia · 01-01-2022, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 08Navigator

Wow, never thought that the fan would break apart...maybe I would be better off just putting a few automotive style electric fans on and canning the the entire hydraulic mess, sounds like it would be significantly more efficient? Much simplier and less stuff to break or fail plus nothing gobbling up HP. Thanks for the input!!

My last coach, a 2003 Revolution had an 8.3L ISC. The plastic fan started cracking and breaking apart. I assumed at the time there was a problem with that batch of plastic or it may have flexed too much at -40° while travelling from Alaska during two winters.

Windecker · 01-02-2022, 07:47 AM

Holy smokes, -40 would not be fun to be in!

Yes, the fans can and do break. Much less often than I would have thought though given the amount of load they carry.

It could be from road debris sometimes though, not sure.
In either case, I would not want my fan running full on all the time for many reasons.

As far as the electric fans go, that may be a direction the industry goes to eventually as there are some weight and complexity savings to be had.

However, like Vito said, you really have to move some air for the larger engines.
A small experimental airplane engine is in that 70 horsepower range (roughly what that cooling fan draws). You would need roughly that much prop and motor thrust from that electric fan to work correctly.

Doable, no question but I think the expense of creating that system is far more costly than fixing your current controller system.

Someone will do this at the manufacturing level soon I bet although what I see going on more with Freighliner is a mechanical clutch and belt driven cooling fan setup.

That has got to be cheaper than the hydraulic and maybe even the electric type setup.

Windecker

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypoxia

My last coach, a 2003 Revolution had an 8.3L ISC. The plastic fan started cracking and breaking apart. I assumed at the time there was a problem with that batch of plastic or it may have flexed too much at -40° while travelling from Alaska during two winters.

08Navigator · 01-04-2022, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windecker

Holy smokes, -40 would not be fun to be in!

Yes, the fans can and do break. Much less often than I would have thought though given the amount of load they carry.

It could be from road debris sometimes though, not sure.
In either case, I would not want my fan running full on all the time for many reasons.

As far as the electric fans go, that may be a direction the industry goes to eventually as there are some weight and complexity savings to be had.

However, like Vito said, you really have to move some air for the larger engines.
A small experimental airplane engine is in that 70 horsepower range (roughly what that cooling fan draws). You would need roughly that much prop and motor thrust from that electric fan to work correctly.

Doable, no question but I think the expense of creating that system is far more costly than fixing your current controller system.

Someone will do this at the manufacturing level soon I bet although what I see going on more with Freighliner is a mechanical clutch and belt driven cooling fan setup.

That has got to be cheaper than the hydraulic and maybe even the electric type setup.

Windecker

Why fix the current system? the fan is going to break, the motor will wear out from use and the pump will fail premature, not worth putting any time or money into something thats already junk to begin with ...not to mention it uses 70 horsepower to operate, thats over 10% of my engines output...
Reminds me of when my ISX dropped a valve, terrible design, terrible quality, I didn't put a penny into thier design, rather fixed it right,trashed all thier faulty parts.. why fix something that is a piece of junk and you know it will break again...Fix it right and be done with it.
I have a company designing something for me...going to do it right.

PT-Tech · 06-30-2022, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windecker

The wax valve itself is a piece of cake to replace. Done from the aft side of the radiator in my case(s).
Windecker

I know this is old, but I'm wondering about how much coolant you had to drain before changing the wax valve.

Greg

jacwjames · 06-30-2022, 12:30 PM

When I changed my thermovalve I didn't drain any, I put a tub underneath and tried to do it as quickly as possible. You have to remove the two small hydraulic lines and plug them. I loosen the old thermovalve until it started to loose a little and got the new one ready to go in and quickly changed. I doubt I lost a gallon of coolant and simply replenished when I was done.

Windecker · 07-01-2022, 06:16 AM

I think it will depend on the coach a little since different engine combinations were used throughout the Monaco line.

If you have the correct O-ring on the new valve (which none of mine ever came with) swapping without draining has some appeal.

I personally drained mine so I had time to check things out. I think it was about 4 gallons.
Since it was a deliberate and controlled draining, I reused my coolant as it had no dirt or crud in it.
Windecker

Quote:

Originally Posted by PT-Tech

I know this is old, but I'm wondering about how much coolant you had to drain before changing the wax valve.

Greg

153stars · 07-02-2022, 12:06 AM

Owners have reported using a shop vac to to keep from loosing oil from drain plug to install Fumoto valve.putting suction on oil fill. Same trick should work for coolant maybe to coolant tank/radiator cap. Might have to break out some duct tape.

PT-Tech · 07-02-2022, 07:38 PM

Thanks for info and ideas on draining.

I was thinking about some sort of vacuum option to keep it from leaking out. At work, I have used a similar method for drawing fluids into a void that has no vent to displace air. I might have to try it.

On another topic, I've been thinking of plumbing in a solenoid dump valve to bypass the thermovalve to keep from dusting out campgrounds. My coach doesn't have the AC condenser in the stack, I wouldn't have to worry about over pressuring. I thought I could wire it to a momentary switch on the dash so it would only work when held on. Also thinking about a hydraulic pressure transducer on the pump motor circuit. This would connect to a readout on the dash to see how hard the fan motor was working. I would assume that the pressure would rise as the speed increases.

Greg

Windecker · 07-04-2022, 07:55 AM

Interesting idea!
My Signature had a solenoid valve to turn the fan on full, never thought of turning it off before.
Windecker

Quote:

Originally Posted by PT-Tech

Thanks for info and ideas on draining.

On another topic, I've been thinking of plumbing in a solenoid dump valve to bypass the thermovalve to keep from dusting out campgrounds. My coach doesn't have the AC condenser in the stack, I wouldn't have to worry about over pressuring. I thought I could wire it to a momentary switch on the dash so it would only work when held on. Also thinking about a hydraulic pressure transducer on the pump motor circuit. This would connect to a readout on the dash to see how hard the fan motor was working. I would assume that the pressure would rise as the speed increases.

Greg

Bigsco · 09-20-2022, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spaceball

Thanks! I had wondered about that. Hmmm will have to come up with something to support it now...

Could you please let me know what part you used in fittings

jacwjames · 09-21-2022, 06:47 AM

You need to ask a more specific question of what you want to do. This is a pretty old thread so you may not get a response if people have to go back and figure out which post you are talking about.

happyhooker · 09-25-2022, 07:02 PM

Just finished reading thru the thread and believe that I need to install a needle valve next to the wax valve that I had installed several years ago. the reason I believe this is because at start up my radiator fan runs pretty loud and as we exit camp grounds without paving I create lots of dust. To be able to get the correct valve I need to know what GPH and Pressure we are dealing with. Does anyone have that knowledge and be willing to share it please.
George L.

Old Scout · 09-26-2022, 08:05 AM

HH--think you are going the wrong way--if fan runs too fast at start-up, your fluid control loop is already too restricted--in this case, a needle valve can only restrict flow more. Typical use for a needle valve is to increase minimum fan speed at start-up.