Fan stuck wide open

[Jeff753]

I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I don’t know what it’s supposed to sound like but on first start up it’s roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.

[2 Stroker]

Originally Posted by Jeff753

I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I don’t know what it’s supposed to sound like but on first start up it’s roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.

Sounds like your Sourer-Danfoss controller has left you high and dry. You might pull the I think 3 wires off and clean them and replace or get a new one or get the wax valve. I had mine replaced with the wax valve 2 years ago, works great.
Source Engineering Inc | Custom RV Chassis | Eugene, OR
2 stroker

[jacwjames]

Jeff,
I was having a similar problem after having my radiator replaced. The shop ulimtately contaminated the wax thermovalve causing the fan to run wide open.

I contacted Monaco tech support and they provided me with a series of test to see if it was the thermovalve or the fan motor. I cannot find the exact instructions so I recommend calling/emailing them to see if they can work you through it.

Ultimately I had to change my thermovalve. I ended up buying from White House Products, cost was ~$260. PN 553/1/09857/210

[DtBt]

It definately is stuck on wide open. It should only turn slowly until you get to about 195 degrees. You might try reversing the lines on the wax valve. I have heard that they have been reversed even on new coaches.
The info I have on a new wax valve is:
Hydraulic Gear Pumps | White House Products | Hydraulic Pumps source for sauer wax valve 553/1/09857/210

I doubt a radiator shop will be familiar with this system.

[jacwjames]

I went back through my files and found an email exchange with Jesse Covington, a Monaco service tech, regarding testing the hydraulic cooling system.

My symptoms were that once the engine heated up and the thermostat opened the fan would run wide open, would never stop until engine was shut off and cooled down but would do the same thing once started again.

I did try reversing the lines thinking that the Cummins shop reversed them when reinstalled, it didn't fix the problem.

He had me do 2 tests,

Remove the 2 hydraulic lines, make sure to mark which one goes where.

Test 1 was to plug both hoses and start the coach, the fan ran wide open.

Test 2 I put a union and connected both hoses, the fan ran at idle.

These test really show that the motor and proportional speed control works, basically showing that the thermovalve was making the fan run at high speed.

Based on this he thought the thermovalve was bad and I replaced.

After I swapped out he thermovalve I did look at the old one and ultimately found a piece of fabric/threads in the valve, Cummins tech probably wrapped in a rag and contaminated it.

[Jeff753]

Originally Posted by 2 Stroker

Sounds like your Sourer-Danfoss controller has left you high and dry. You might pull the I think 3 wires off and clean them and replace or get a new one or get the wax valve. I had mine replaced with the wax valve 2 years ago, works great.

Source Engineering Inc | Custom RV Chassis | Eugene, OR

2 stroker

My 2001 Dynasty has a wax valve according to the manual. Is that different than the danfoss controller? I’ll get under there and check for wires but I don’t recall seeing wires. Anyone have a part number for a wax valve for a 01 Dynasty?

[oldmattb]

Our 1998 Windsor came from the factory with a restrictor in the hydraulic line - kept the fan running at lower temperature to reduce dash AC head pressure.

On advice from Source Engineering, I removed the restrictor, drilled out the orifice to a larger size, and reinstalled - problem solved. Had I not spent a day chasing wax valve problems that didn't exist, this would have been a 30 minute job.

Ask Source about this to see if it applies to your coach. Better a free repair you do need, over a $600 repair you don't.

I hope this helps!

Matt B

[jacwjames]

Here is where I bought my replacement. You will have to register to get a price but once I did that it was a seemless transaction and fast shipping.

553/1/09857/210 | HYDRAULIC GEAR MOTORS & FAN CONTROL VALVES | White House Products

If you are not sure of the PN you could take yours off to confirm

[William Willard]

The wax valve # 5531-09857-210 opens full at 199 degrees -- However, to regulate fan speed you will need an orifice in the line -- I experimented with different size orifices & a .019 orifice had the fan @ about 700 rpm`s at idle, witch should be OK for the dash air to operate -- The smaller the orifice, faster the fan -- I have a wax valve # 5531-09855-210 , but it opens at 187 degrees & that`s to cold for a diesel engine -- Bill Willard

[oldguy70]

You were asking about wires. There are no wires only hydraulic lines or you can call them
hoses.

[2 Stroker]

Well, I had a lapse of memory Country Coach and Monaco even with side radiator cool in a different way. Mine had the Sourer-Danfoss controller (12v) system that went bad that controls the temp run the hyd oil for the fan. They removed the oil lines, welded a bung into the top coolant pipe installed the wax valve installed the 2 hoses going to the fan.
Did not mean to take this thread in the wrong direction.
2 stroker

[Windecker]

This is where I got mine,(see link in quoted text) fast shipping and believe it or not, cheaper to ship overseas than in our own country!

Regarding testing, just put a small ball valve inline with the hydraulic hoses. If you open the valve the fan runs slow, as you close the valve the fan speeds up. You are simulating the wax valve when your opening and closing the ball valve. I believe they are -4 flair tubing size hoses.

Yes, some have electric valves as well that will kick the fan speed up when demanded by the ECM regardless of the wax valve lack of command. On my Signature it was a small solenoid valve in series with the hydraulic control hoses.
I believe the temp sensor in the CAC would kick the fan on if it sensed high intake temperatures. Of course, high intake temperatures means engine is likely working hard so this would not only cool the hot intake air but get a jump on the upcoming shot of hot coolant that was going to be following soon LOL.

Terrible pictures but this was the solenoid valve in my Signature from my radiator change in 07.
Windecker



This might have just been in ISM 11 installs, not sure.
The wax valve itself is a piece of cake to replace. Done from the aft side of the radiator in my case(s).
Windecker

Originally Posted by jacwjames

Here is where I bought my replacement. You will have to register to get a price but once I did that it was a seemless transaction and fast shipping.

553/1/09857/210 | HYDRAULIC GEAR MOTORS & FAN CONTROL VALVES | White House Products

If you are not sure of the PN you could take yours off to confirm

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Jeff753

I think my fan is stuck wide open and has been since I got it about 5 years ago.
I don’t know what it’s supposed to sound like but on first start up it’s roaring pretty good.

How do you test that theory?

I seem to remember something from Sir Cantor about testing this...something about routing hydraulic lines to a valve to vary flow or something like that.

Would it be the (sic) sig saur valve or the wax valve? Should a good radiator shop be able to fix it? Got one of those close.

Jeff, you have received a lot of good advice from several great guys. Your solution depends primarily on whether your coach was ORIGINALLY equipped with the Sauer-Danfoss electronic valve or a thermal wax controller. My 2000 Dynasty, Oregon-built in late 1999, was originally equipped with a wax controller. It is a small device plugged into the top rear of the radiator with two small hydraulic lines attached to it. It is my understanding (no personal experience) that the Sauer-Danfoss valve had wires attached to it. Determine which controller you have before proceeding. I know that if my coach had a part which required months to receive and cost nearly $1000, I would definitely seek an alternate solution. It is also my understanding that some radiator fans run wide open for a short time after initially starting the engine, and that behavior is normal. Sorry I could not be more help--never had any trouble with mine.

[Windecker]

This is the set up I made to test mine. The gauge is to read the pressure while on full at highway speed RPM, 1500-1800 Don't remember the exacts but I believe it was supposed to read roughly 3000 PSI at full on. The valve part was used to regulate it as described in my previous post.



It simply hooks to the end of the hoses that attach to the wax valve so the wax valve is not hooked up for this test.
Hope that helps!
As Vanwill stated, you do need to know which system you have though.
Windecker