Good News to all Monaco owners

[RoadRohrers]

Originally Posted by EngineerMike

"The challenge we will have is, a lot of dealers and people on the outside will see this as the same Monaco, and it´s not," said Snell.

This will cost New Monaco a pile of money dealing w/the misunderstanding. Of course it also would have cost a pile of money to buy some of the assets of a BK company, and then pony up to service a bunch of warranty contracts to which Navistar was never a party. I wonder which pile is bigger...

Well said. Bottom line decision making versus big picture leadership?

[MXDad93]

Just how many "unwarrented" MH's were sold that were affected by the bankruptcy (besides mine)? I would think that the "new" monaco would be far better off in the long run by showing potential customers that they beleive in the monaco quality that was previously sold by providing warranty support for the few that purchased a coach over the past year.

Maybe a new company, but some of the same leadership, same name, etc... I certainly will never recommend them to a potential customer just for the fact that I was onnly given two months of warranty support prior to the furlough, and bankruptcy commencement.

Thanks for nothing Monaco, new or old! It is essentially the same Monaco... with new ownership. This will be the perspective of most... inclucing myself

[-Gramps-]

The "new" Monaco will be built more on the Tiffin business plan than the old Monaco which parked coaches in the grass waiting for the dealer to order them. Navistar/Workhorse has already taken care of a problem with my coach which was a house issue not the chassis but it didn't matter it was still taken care of and this was before the official announcement of the new company. So maybe you need to give it just a bit more time to see how all this will work for present Monaco owners.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by EngineerMike

"The challenge we will have is, a lot of dealers and people on the outside will see this as the same Monaco, and it´s not," said Snell.

This will cost New Monaco a pile of money dealing w/the misunderstanding. Of course it also would have cost a pile of money to buy some of the assets of a BK company, and then pony up to service a bunch of warranty contracts to which Navistar was never a party. I wonder which pile is bigger...

I think it's fairly obvious which pile is bigger. If you look at this warranty issue, setting all emotion aside, this is how I see it... If Navistar denies warranty coverage, the only customers effected, to any great degree, are those who purchased new coaches between last summer and this past March. And between high fuel prices last year and then the September melt-down, those were the lightest months of sales in most of RV history. People who bought Monaco coaches after this past March knew they were buying without a warranty and made their deals accordingly. So while I sympathize tremendously with those folks, they represent a fairly insignificant number when you look at past Monaco customers. Sure customers are upset now, but nine months from now, I don't think it will make much difference with respect to future Monaco sales.

On the other hand, let's be honest. The "old Monaco" did not make very many coaches that were not riddled with warranty issues. Most of us who purchased coaches over the past five years or so, were pulling our hair out the first year over all those bugs that should have been caught with a good quality control program. If you look at this from a purely financial perspective, why should Navistar be penalized by backing up poor quality control for a small group of customers, when they clearly bought only assets with no debt responsibility? They do have quality control standards in place. There have never been large warranty issues with International products with numbers that come remotely close to those of Monaco. Sure, motorhomes are more complex than trucks, but that does not vindicate Monaco's past lack of quality control. My bet is that Navistar pretty much sees it in that light.

All that said, my gut prediction is that Navistar will work out some sort of "compromise position" with customer who have existing warranty issues, probably on a case-by-case basis, purely for the sake of good will. But I don't think they see it as a big deal one way or the other in terms of future sales. And in all honesty, they'd probably be right about that.

[-Gramps-]

Very Sensible post there Robin.

[moisheh]

Good post Robin. However let us look at this problem from another perspective. The market for Class A motorhomes has shrunk to less than 50 % of 18 months ago. Many mfrs. have disappeared. Those that are left have to fight for a piece of the shrinking market. In tough times your reputation is key to survival. The warranty issue has been on every RV forum and I am sure is a subject at many CG campfire discussions. I too wonder how many units are affected by the warranty denial. Being as Monaco kept producing units that had no home I would guess that there are/were a lot. Let's use 1000 as a figure. Could be half that but who knows. Now let's add in the monies that are owed to dealers who did warranty repiars and were never paid. That could be a lot of money. A few million $ for sure. Let's use $4 million as a guess. Is your reputation worth 4 million dollars? Denying support for all these people will damage the new company. Applying warranty on a case by case basis will not help. They need to step up to the plate and show the public that they are indeed a new company and are willing to go the extra mile. This would put them in the same class as Tiffin! Perhaps they could purchase some type of exetnded policy for those unsold units.. Or offer a limited warranty. Having to plead your case is not the answer. Is Navistart naive enought to think that warranty on those units would not be a problem?? Or did they consult with Toolson? As for the dealers maybe they could give them 50 cents on the dollar. The status quo will only hurt the new Monaco beyond repair. The internet is a powerfull tool and upset customers can break a company. Please note I really do not have a horse in this race. My warranty has expired other than the Roadmaster portion. I did have a few small claims but I just paid for the parts myself. Less than $250.00. My attitude would be stronger if I had slide out or structural problems!! I do not follow Workhorse issues but I wonder how they handle warranty problems. Are they problematic??

[Robin_M]

Good points, but Navistar cannot go back and change what people are already talking about. All they can do is go forward. That is why I think they will handle existing warranty issues on a "case-by-base" basis. That way they can make judgment calls about good will, while controlling their costs. As for reimbursing dealers, whatever they do with dealers is not going to have much of an impact on future sales. There are numerous other considerations with respect to dealers. That all has to be handled between Navistar and each individual dealer, I'd think.

On a closely related subject, I'll make another "prediction".... They may have kept Toolson for now, but I'll bet he'll be gone within the next year - probably sooner. I think there are many reasons why that has to be. I'm not necessarily being negative about Toolson. I just think there are apt to be "irreconcilable differences in philosophies" going forward.

[moisheh]

Robin:

As a business person I can state that the dealers are most important if they want to stay in business. Ther have been a lot of dealer closures. Some former Monaco dealers have taken on other lines. Others like Beaudry are barely staying in business. Monaco will need the support of a decent dealer network. The "super" sized dealers can move a lot of units. Lazy Days comes to mind immediately. I am not totally familiar with former Monaco/HR dealers but there were other big dealers. Will they be willing to sell the new product after being burned by the old Monaco??

Let me ask another question of you and others who read our dribble:

If you were in the market for a new unit would you buy a Monaco from the new Monaco ? I asked myself that question and I would have serious doubts about the product and the new company. Is Navistar in this for the long haul? Normally $47 million would provide the answer but in today's marketplace I am not surprised by anything. The fall selling season is fast approaching and Navistar needs to have everything in place to sell MH's . Lots of unanswered questions. Hopefully they are in high gear and many of the answers will be provided in the next 30 to 60 days. I am sure we all want them to produce a good product and succeed.

[Up N Flames]

Just had this email sent to me from the NEW Monaco.

Dear Valued Customer,
As you're probably aware, on March 5, 2009, Monaco Coach Corporation filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in the state of Delaware.
You've been an important part of the Monaco family, and we'd like to share some great news with you. We are thrilled to announce that the RV related assets of Monaco Coach Corporation have been acquired by an affiliate of Navistar, Inc., to create a new company called Monaco RV, LLC. You may know Navistar as the company that produces quality products like International® trucks, MaxxForce® diesel engines, IC Bus school and commercial buses, and Workhorse® brand chassis for motor homes and step vans. We are proud to say that what you love about Monaco won't change, including providing the best customer care in the industry.
With this new company, we're poised for the future, ready to meet the challenges of the business and will continue to produce the highest quality RVs in the market. We realize that the ability to obtain customer service, technical advice and replacement parts are a significant factor in the use and enjoyment of your RV. While Monaco RV, LLC did not assume Monaco Coach Corporation's liabilities, including existing coach warranties, we'll do what we can to stand behind you with parts and support for your product. Within the next couple of weeks, service and parts areas of Monaco RV, LLC will be open for business, staffed with many familiar Monaco brand experts to assist you. As a part of the Navistar group of companies, Monaco RV, LLC will be here to serve you and your family for many years to come.
As we make the transition to this new company during the next few months, we'll be working hard to develop our dealer distribution network, and we'll continue to develop new and exciting products. We appreciate your patience during this time, and please be confident that you chose a winning brand that will stand by you. We look forward to serving you in the future, because you are a key part of our success.
If you have any questions for us, please feel free to contact Customer Service at 877-4MONACO. Specific information about Monaco Coach Corporation's bankruptcy process can be found at www.omnimgt.com. We sincerely appreciate your support and we look forward to seeing you at our next rally, where we can thank you personally for your dedication to our products.
Sincerely,

Kay Toolson
CEO
Monaco RV, LLC

Jack Allen
President
Navistar North American Truck Group

[Dwain]

Just received this e-mail:

Dear Valued Customer,
As you're probably aware, on March 5, 2009, Monaco Coach Corporation filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in the state of Delaware.
You've been an important part of the Monaco family, and we'd like to share some great news with you. We are thrilled to announce that the RV related assets of Monaco Coach Corporation have been acquired by an affiliate of Navistar, Inc., to create a new company called Monaco RV, LLC. You may know Navistar as the company that produces quality products like International trucks, MaxxForce diesel engines, IC Bus school and commercial buses, and Workhorse brand chassis for motor homes and step vans. We are proud to say that what you love about Monaco won't change, including providing the best customer care in the industry.
With this new company, we're poised for the future, ready to meet the challenges of the business and will continue to produce the highest quality RVs in the market. We realize that the ability to obtain customer service, technical advice and replacement parts are a significant factor in the use and enjoyment of your RV. While Monaco RV, LLC did not assume Monaco Coach Corporation's liabilities, including existing coach warranties, we'll do what we can to stand behind you with parts and support for your product. Within the next couple of weeks, service and parts areas of Monaco RV, LLC will be open for business, staffed with many familiar Monaco brand experts to assist you. As a part of the Navistar group of companies, Monaco RV, LLC will be here to serve you and your family for many years to come.
As we make the transition to this new company during the next few months, we'll be working hard to develop our dealer distribution network, and we'll continue to develop new and exciting products. We appreciate your patience during this time, and please be confident that you chose a winning brand that will stand by you. We look forward to serving you in the future, because you are a key part of our success.
If you have any questions for us, please feel free to contact Customer Service at 877-4MONACO. Specific information about Monaco Coach Corporation's bankruptcy process can be found at www.omnimgt.com. We sincerely appreciate your support and we look forward to seeing you at our next rally, where we can thank you personally for your dedication to our products.
Sincerely,

Kay Toolson
CEO
Monaco RV, LLC

Jack Allen
President
Navistar North American Truck Group

[EngineerMike]

re: "...in it for the long run..." that's a hallmark of Navistar.

re: Workhorse, and what their issues & attitude have been, there is a Workhorse Chassis Forum here on iRV2 with plenty to read about how customers are treated. There are one or maybe a couple Moderators there who get some travel reimbursement from WH to attend company events, and they are verry knowledgeable about the WH product & process.

Generally, I get the feeling WH customers are well satisfied, tho WH products have their idiosyncrasies like any other in this industry. Having met some of their techno-geeks, they are chassis guys (vs. salesmen or accountants, that's important IMO). Reminds me of Cummins guys who live & breathe their product, tho hopefully not their exhaust ;-)

One interesting WH topic tho is brakes; WH made a lot of chassis' (est. @ 47,000 rigs) w/hydraulic brakes by Bosch w/a defect that can cause a caliper to lock. Workhorse treated it for a ridiculously long time as a customer induced problem from not changing brake fluid or not doing other maintenance w/precise regularity. Eventually, customers took it to federal highway Safety Admin, & some more eventually later, a "voluntary" recall was issued. This after some coach owners had multiple brake overhauls costing thousands and rotors had locked up on the highway freezing coaches in traffic. This has not been WH's finest hour, and although the "voluntary" recall is in place WH is saying only brake work fixing this problem after NHTSA started studying the problem may be entitled to a refund (i.e. WH stands behind none of the work customers paid for while WH diddled). I'm hoping for more rational leadership from WH after the legalese is satisfied; time will tell.

re: Toolsen, I can't imagine he will be much other than a short term figurehead. After all, it was his leverage-leaning vision that pile-drove Monaco into bankruptcy; its hard to believe he suddenly knows how to live in a cash flow world.

re: near-future,
1) I suspect Robin-M has it spot on about small numbers caught in the squeeze relative to overall Monaco ownership, and the effects washing out in several years (and it'll take several for RV biz to normalize anyway).
2) Gramps- can you elucidate on your recent assistance from Nav-Mon? What happened & what level of assistance was rendered by the new Monaco? I think this would be of great interest to those here who do have a horse in the race. My ponies are all out to pasture

[-Gramps-]

I had an AC fuse blowing problem. Turned out to be a bad condensor fan which is provided by Monaco. It took quite a few hours to troubleshoot and WH said they would cover all the labor even though it ended up not being a chassis problem. Still there was some issue about getting a new fan. I ordered it myself and it was on the way when a WH rep called me and said I really didn't need to pay for it myself. It seems the vendor of the fan was being quite reluctant to stand behind their warranty to Monaco at the time. However the part was not that expensive, less than 100 bucks, and since I didn't have to worry about the labor, things did not turn out all that bad. The important thing is that the Monaco techs, the Workhorse tech and the dealer tech all worked well together to get to bottom of why my 30 amp Front CCM fuse kept popping everytime I turned on the dash AC. Works great now!

[moisheh]

Engineer Mike:

Thanks for that insight on Workhorse. I was aware of that brake fiasco. That alone would keep me from buying a Workhorse chassis. I am not familiar with Workhorse since Navistar took over. I do know that the original company was horrible. When they purchased the chassis comapny from GM they also got all the existing GM parts. Cables that were under $35.00 suddenly became over $100. Workhorse dealers carried alnmost no parts and you had to pay freight from Workhorse to the dealer. They inherited the famous Auto Park system and I think it is still problematic. Before the Navistar/ Moaco deal was finalized I had read that the new company would have one stop service. We all know that will never happen. I can count on one hand ( maybe hands and feet) the # of RV dealers capable of doing chassis work. Most cannot do diesel or air barke work. I doubt any Navistar dealers want to see MH's in their shops. I have also read where posters stated that Navistar/ Monaco was going to lease space at RV dealers to do warranty work. Strange. BTW: Navistar just released their financial statement. Profits were down over 90 % last year!! Are Workhorse owners able to take their chassis to Navistar dealers for service??

[-Gramps-]

The two Workhorse dealers that I would take my rig to are both Coach dealers as well. The Holiday Rambler dealer I bought my coach from is a Workhorse Service center. They are not that close to me, but they are a one stop shop.