Installing a PAC brake rocker switch

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Tom,

I have a rocker switch on my driver's dash panel for the PacBrake Exhaust Brake. It is on 24/7. I never turn it off. I, personally, would not use a foot switch if I had one.

It is a SPST switch whereas the foot switch you have is a momentary switch. It does the same thing but it is closed only when your foot is on the switch.

I see no reason why you cannot add the SPST rocker switch if you want it.

The foot switch method is more useful for the Jake Engine Brake owners versus the Exhaust Brake owners. They have a two stage brake which is really strong and you would NOT want that coming on every time when you remove your foot from the treadle.

The Brake Switch that has been posted in this thread is a very useful device IF your coach is not set up to use the Exhaust Brake AND the Cruise Control at the same time. Meaning that with some coaches, if your Exhaust Brake switch is ON, then your cruise control will NOT work. My coach has the Latching Program flashed into the ECM/VCM so I do not need the Brake Switch.

It is something to look into if that's how you want to drive your coach. Some people prefer to turn the PacBrake switch on and off when needed whereas I prefer to leave it ON all the time. I have developed the driving skills to use it efficiently that way. Plus I get to use the Cruise Control whenever I want to.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

If your ECM is capable of being programed/flashed into the latch/coast mode the BrakeSwitch add-on is not necessary, (my coach, unfortunately was not).
Mel
'96 Safari

[Tomjhall]

Thanks for the response.

So to test this out I could simply drive and set the cruise and then press the foot switch. If the ECM is "flashed" then the PAC Brake should work? If the PAC Brake doesn't work then I would need to get the ECM flashed?

I honestly don't know if I would want the PAC Brake coming on every time used the service brakes. If I am driving down a BLVD and in traffic I would want the tranny down shifting every time I hit the brakes. This is my first motor home and everything is new. I drive a drag car very fast and I've driven large trucks and towed very heavy trailers across the country several times but learning to drive my Monaco is a new experience that I don't take lightly.

If I parallel the foot switch I think I would have the best of both worlds (if the ECM is setup like yours). I am headed to Las Vegas next month pulling my new (shorter) car trailer to a big race. My old 28 foot trailer made me way over the legal length limit in Calif. My new trailer put me right at 65', and I still need to check if my brake lights work when the PAC Brake is on. I have a long "to do" list.

We are leaving Sacramento and taking highway 50 into Nevada then heading south to Las Vegas. 99 is HORRIBLE and my rig might be in pieces by the time I drove to Vegas if I went that route.

I put new tires on that improved the ride, I went up in size to reduce the PSI I needed to run. The 99 Windsors had tires put on that barely would meet the weight requirements with 120PSI and they had some recalls. I put on 295's and can now run 95 if wanted to. I now need shocks to finish of the ride, I haven't made up my mind on the Konis, or the new Bilsteins that Source has developed.

Thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by Tomjhall

Thanks for the response.

So to test this out I could simply drive and set the cruise and then press the foot switch. If the ECM is "flashed" then the PAC Brake should work? If the PAC Brake doesn't work then I would need to get the ECM flashed?

I honestly don't know if I would want the PAC Brake coming on every time used the service brakes. If I am driving down a BLVD and in traffic I would want the tranny down shifting every time I hit the brakes. This is my first motor home and everything is new. I drive a drag car very fast and I've driven large trucks and towed very heavy trailers across the country several times but learning to drive my Monaco is a new experience that I don't take lightly.

If I parallel the foot switch I think I would have the best of both worlds (if the ECM is setup like yours). I am headed to Las Vegas next month pulling my new (shorter) car trailer to a big race. My old 28 foot trailer made me way over the legal length limit in Calif. My new trailer put me right at 65', and I still need to check if my brake lights work when the PAC Brake is on. I have a long "to do" list.

We are leaving Sacramento and taking highway 50 into Nevada then heading south to Las Vegas. 99 is HORRIBLE and my rig might be in pieces by the time I drove to Vegas if I went that route.

I put new tires on that improved the ride, I went up in size to reduce the PSI I needed to run. The 99 Windsors had tires put on that barely would meet the weight requirements with 120PSI and they had some recalls. I put on 295's and can now run 95 if wanted to. I now need shocks to finish of the ride, I haven't made up my mind on the Konis, or the new Bilsteins that Source has developed.

Thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.

The correct way to test it is have the PacBrake foot-switch activated while cruising about 50 with pressure on the treadle. Then try to engage the cruise control. If it won't engage then your engine does not have the Latching Program. By pressing the PacBrake foot switch that would be the same a shaving a rocker switch on.

It is very expensive to have Cummins flash that program into your ECM/VCM. Probably over $200 versus just buying the Brake Switch and installing that onto your coach.

Our driving habits will determine how each of us uses the Exhaust Brake or the Jake Engine Brake. To each their own as to how they prefer to drive their rigs.

I want my PacBrake on all the time because I like the idea of my PacBrake helping me to slow down whenever I completely remove my foot from the treadle. It saves on brake linings plus it reacts quicker than my foot. Also, the Allison does NOT downshift to 2nd gear immediately. That's the aim gear once the PacBrake engages. If you are at 6th or 5th gear, then the Allison downshifts to 4th until your speed reduces to safely downshift into 3rd and finally into 2nd.

WRT the brakes lights coming on when the Exhaust Brake is used, my coach is like that and that's the way I want it. I tow a 30 foot cargo rolling garage and when descending a large grade I want people in back of me to know that one I am slowing down and two I am going a LOT slower than they are. If I am traveling slower than 40 mph I always have my hazards on. BTW, the electric brakes on my trailer do NOT come one when the Exhaust Brake is active.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Tomjhall

Thanks for the response.
I honestly don't know if I would want the PAC Brake coming on every time used the service brakes. If I am driving down a BLVD and in traffic I would want the tranny down shifting every time I hit the brakes.

If I parallel the foot switch I think I would have the best of both worlds (if the ECM is setup like yours). I am headed to Las Vegas next month pulling my new (shorter) car trailer to a big race. My old 28 foot trailer made me way over the legal length limit in Calif. My new trailer put me right at 65', and I still need to check if my brake lights work when the PAC Brake is on. I have a long "to do" list.

We are leaving Sacramento and taking highway 50 into Nevada then heading south to Las Vegas. 99 is HORRIBLE and my rig might be in pieces by the time I drove to Vegas if I went that route.

Thanks for your help, it is very much appreciated.

Tom
I can't tell you how/if your coach brakes/PacBrake would work if your coach ECM had the coast flashed into it.

However, with the BrakeSwitch installed, (and turned on), the PacBrake does not activate (and no "tranny down shifting"), does not take place every time I hit the service brakes.... (only if/when the brake service are applied and held for about 3/4 of a second to a second).
Then, by simply touching, or applying the throttle, the PacBrake de-cactivates and the Allison display changes from gear "selected 2" and returns to whatever gear that the speed of the coach dictates, (be it 3, 4, 5 or 6).
Mel
'96 Safari

Since I installed the BrakeSwitch 2 years, 16,000 miles ago, I have always driven with the BrakeSwitch turned on, (expect when the road was wet/slippery.

[Dutch Star Don]

Tom.....back to your original post. Do to some wiring errors by Monaco when my coach was new, my exhaust brake flapper never activated when I engaged the exhaust brake, but the transmission did downshift as designed. They never could find the issue. This same issue also prevented me from installing the "Brake Switch" a few posters talked about because it's activated by the brake lights and mine wouldn't come on with the exhaust brake activation.

I paid a Cummins dealer to connect my coach to their Insite computer program ($110.00) to see if the exhaust brake control had been turned off. It wasn't, but I was surprised to find that my coach was cable of activating the latching feature. I mention this because the latching feature wasn't suppose to be available until somewhere around 06. So I doubt you have the ability to turn that feature on.

Since neither Monaco nor I could find the issue with my exhaust brake, I eventually just wired a second switch to activate the exhaust flapper, giving me a two speed exhaust brake. On the dash to my left knee where all of my switches are located, there were some blank spaces. When I removed the panel, I found that on the underside, Monaco had precut additional switch spaces, just not all the way through. You may want to check this.

Lastly, I wanted a foot pedal and switch. As you said, holding down that pedal can get old, so I wired a lighted switch in parallel to the foot pedal and mounted it on my side dash. If I press the foot pedal for momentary use, the lighted switch lights up. For longer grades, I just turn the switch on. Since I already had a lighted exhaust brake switch, I stole the power from that switch to light the new one.

[mel s]

Originally Posted by Diplomat Don

Tom.... Do to some wiring errors by Monaco when my coach was new, my exhaust brake flapper never activated when I engaged the exhaust brake, but the transmission did downshift as designed. They never could find the issue. This same issue also prevented me from installing the "Brake Switch" a few posters talked about because it's activated by the brake lights and mine wouldn't come on with the exhaust brake activation.

Diplomat Don
Nice job!
I'm glad you found a solution to your exhaust brake "flapper" problem, (things like that can sure be irritating).

BTW, my brake lights did not originally come on with PacBrake activation either.
That does not seem very safe)?
However, that is an easy situation to remedy.
The "BrakeSwitch" instructions explain how to do it...... (the instructions and wiring diagrams can be read on this website: http://www.brakeswitch.com/index.htm
Mel
'96 Safari

[Dr4Film]

Don,

My 2002 Cummins ISC and 3000MH Allison had been flashed sometime by the original owner.

Before my first long trip to Alaska in 2010, I stopped in Coburg OR to have Cummins do some work and also flash the Latching Program for me as I had previously talked to the service manager about doing it.

By the time I arrived after using the PacBrake and Cruise Control without difficulty, we surmised that it had already been done so they didn't touch it.

I've been very happy running with the PacBrake switch on 24/7.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[Dutch Star Don]

I wish I could run with mine on, but it kills the cruise control. I called Bob at "Brake Switch" and asked if I could now use the "Brake Switch" since I had the "latching" turned on. I wanted his switch to allow me to run the cruise control with the exhaust brake switch on. Her said it wouldn't work, but I don't think he realized that I had the latching done and just wanted the cruise over ride. I need to hook the "Brake Switch" up again and see what it does.

[Tomjhall]

Don,
Do you have the Specs or model number of the red lighted switch you have? I bought a Carling switch that matches mine (a little different than yours) but it doesn't have the correct circuit for the light and I can't connect it to the headlight switch either. It works great just not illuminated. it will work just fine for my upcoming Las Vegas trip. I also just bought some new headlights. My SoCal trip made me aware that the headlights were horrible. I purchased the DIS that are said to be nearly 3X brighter than halogen. We will see, I bought the clear globes so that will help even if the DIS propaganda is a little thick.

New topics under a old thread.....

Do you have any thoughts on the new Bilstein shocks that Source Engineering helped develop vs Koni's? I need new shocks and don't want to make the wrong decision because they are very proud of them. $$$

Thanks

[Gorlininc]

Hi Don

What is LATCHING?
My cruise control always worked with my brake switch on. I don't know if it was upgraded. I bought it this way.
2001 diplomat 38A
Rick

[Dutch Star Don]

Tom......I used the same switch as the OEM exhaust brake switch. You can still get them from Monaco or take a shot at getting them from Northwest RV Supply. http://www.nwrvsupply.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=NWRV&Category_ Code=25

Gorlininc......If you look in your run bay (under driver's window) down near the bottom of the bay where there are two black boxes that say Monaco 1 and Monaco 2, you'll probably see another small black box with wires that have been tapped into your original wiring. This is the "Brake Switch" that others are discussing. I'm guessing someone before you wired one in. I don't think that running cruise control with the exhaust brake switch on was available in 2001.

Older Monaco's would go down the road with the cruise control on, but the minute you turned the exhaust brake switch on, it would kill the cruise control and engage the exhaust brake. In a panic stop at freeway speeds with cruise on, you would have to hit the brakes and then fumble for the exhaust brake switch.

In later years they fixed this. First, you could turn on the exhaust brake switch while driving and nothing would happen until you stepped on the brake to activate the exhaust brake. You could deactivate the exhaust brake by giving the coach some throttle. You could also use your cruise control the entire time exhaust brake switch was on. "Latching" referred to the exhaust brake turning on when the brake was pressed and deactivating when the throttle was pressed. I was able to turn the "latching" feature on through a computer program change, but I still can't go down the road with the exhaust brake switch on and cruise control.

I'm getting closer to resolving this issue by purchasing a new coach with a 450 ISL and "Engine Brake".

[Dutch Star Don]

Forgot about the shocks. I have the Koni FSD's and they eliminated about 95% of the jarring I would get on a lot of roads. This was an important issue to me, because the jarring was so bad that I thought the TV would fall out. The handling in turns was just an extra benefit.

I've read a ton of posts about the Bilsteins and the Koni's on here and other forums. It seems that the Class A gassers are happier with the Bilsteins and the DP owners are happier with the Koni's. I posted before that the Bilsteins that are supposedly tuned for Monacos, may be tuned for Monacos that have the ride enhancement kit. I think before I spent the money, I would get that question answered.

[Gorlininc]

Hi Don.

I don't believe I have a brake switch. My exhaust brake activates when I take my foot off the throttle (not touching the brake pedal) and goes off when I press the throttle down again. But I do use the cruise control all the time with the exhaust brake on. I've very rarely turn off my exhaust brake switch. On Friday I'm on the road. I'll turn the exhaust brake off and activate the cruise control. Then turn the exhaust brake on, and see what happens. But I know if the exhaust brake is on, the cruise control works. Also when I'm going down a hill, with cruise control on, it maintains the speed, no over speeding. It feels like the exhaust brake is partially engaged to maintain the proper speed. That's how mind works.

[Dutch Star Don]

Gorlininc......I don't know why yours is different than. The guy who made the exhaust brake switch, specifically made them for coaches like mine and older. When I talked to him last year he said he was selling what he had left and would no longer be making them since the new coaches didn't need it. Maybe your trans computer was capable of the changes and was reconfigured.