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Old 05-30-2018, 02:13 PM   #1
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Intermittent ATS operation(need diagnosis help)

I have learned a whole lot from the capable folks who generously share their time and expertise to help folks like me but my research hasn't made me totally comfortable enough concluding I need to replace my automatic transfer switch.

After spending a week or so with a 50 amp hookup we hit the road in our 2005 Monaco Knight 40PLQ. Within a day the dash air which had just been evacuated and serviced by Iron Horse RV began blowing hot air again. I started the Onan QD8000 and ran the roof air for some relief for the rest of the day before hooking up to 50 amp again.

The next day of travel when I started the genny for roof air and to recharge the house batteries the charger wouldn't come on line and the roof air wouldn't turn on. I noticed the green LED on the EMS panel for GEN SET did not come on and the green LEDs for sheddable systems was dark. I shutdown the genny and restarted it with the same result. I did it one more time and this time the GEN SET LED and sheddable systems LEDs illuminated. I started the roof air which came on so I left it on as we were sweltering in an Oklahoma Welcome Center.

It was Memorial Day weekend and every campsite within a million(?) miles was reserved but we got extremely lucky and got a 50 amp hookup when somebody didn't show for their campsite. I now had some wiggle room from the shore power to do some troubleshooting.

Using a multi-meter I determined the genny output was 124VAC to the ATS on legs L1 and L2 but it wasn't getting to the coach even though the genny was supposed to have priority over the powercord. The priority DIP switch was set to 1 instead of ON. When I turned the pedestal's 50 amp CBs OFF the coach lost all AC power even though the ATS was receiving power from the genny.

To shorten a long story I determined both the red and black hot wires from the power cord and the genny sent 124VAC to the ATS. The ATS always sent 124VAC from the power cord to the Intellitec Model 750 service distribution panel and EMS panel when appropriate. The ATS would sometimes send 124VAC from the genny to the service panel and EMS panel but usually would not as verified by zero VAC on the red and black wires from the ATS to the coach panels. It is maddeningly intermittent.

I have concluded the ATS is the problem(Duh!) What I don't know if it is repairable or if it is a Remove and Replace(R&R.) Can one or both relays be replaced? Can the Time Delay Control Module be replaced? I have never seen the green LED INDICATOR(OPERATION OK) light illuminated? Is that significant? If I want to change the priority of the power source to the coach from the genny to the power cord for some reason can I do it by sliding the DIP switch from 1 to ON? If so, are there any unintended consequences I should know about?

Finally(about time sez those still reading) what suitable ATS is a simple to R&R and more reliable brand of ATS for replacement and a good shop in the OKC or Tulsa area to do the job. Unfortunately, arthritis and carpal tunnel in my wrists and hands will make it a difficult and painful job for me.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions y'all might have.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:12 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FL420 View Post
I have learned a whole lot from the capable folks who generously share their time and expertise to help folks like me but my research hasn't made me totally comfortable enough concluding I need to replace my automatic transfer switch.

After spending a week or so with a 50 amp hookup we hit the road in our 2005 Monaco Knight 40PLQ. Within a day the dash air which had just been evacuated and serviced by Iron Horse RV began blowing hot air again. I started the Onan QD8000 and ran the roof air for some relief for the rest of the day before hooking up to 50 amp again.

The next day of travel when I started the genny for roof air and to recharge the house batteries the charger wouldn't come on line and the roof air wouldn't turn on. I noticed the green LED on the EMS panel for GEN SET did not come on and the green LEDs for sheddable systems was dark. I shutdown the genny and restarted it with the same result. I did it one more time and this time the GEN SET LED and sheddable systems LEDs illuminated. I started the roof air which came on so I left it on as we were sweltering in an Oklahoma Welcome Center.

It was Memorial Day weekend and every campsite within a million(?) miles was reserved but we got extremely lucky and got a 50 amp hookup when somebody didn't show for their campsite. I now had some wiggle room from the shore power to do some troubleshooting.

Using a multi-meter I determined the genny output was 124VAC to the ATS on legs L1 and L2 but it wasn't getting to the coach even though the genny was supposed to have priority over the powercord. The priority DIP switch was set to 1 instead of ON. When I turned the pedestal's 50 amp CBs OFF the coach lost all AC power even though the ATS was receiving power from the genny.

To shorten a long story I determined both the red and black hot wires from the power cord and the genny sent 124VAC to the ATS. The ATS always sent 124VAC from the power cord to the Intellitec Model 750 service distribution panel and EMS panel when appropriate. The ATS would sometimes send 124VAC from the genny to the service panel and EMS panel but usually would not as verified by zero VAC on the red and black wires from the ATS to the coach panels. It is maddeningly intermittent.

I have concluded the ATS is the problem(Duh!) What I don't know if it is repairable or if it is a Remove and Replace(R&R.) Can one or both relays be replaced? Can the Time Delay Control Module be replaced? I have never seen the green LED INDICATOR(OPERATION OK) light illuminated? Is that significant? If I want to change the priority of the power source to the coach from the genny to the power cord for some reason can I do it by sliding the DIP switch from 1 to ON? If so, are there any unintended consequences I should know about?

Finally(about time sez those still reading) what suitable ATS is a simple to R&R and more reliable brand of ATS for replacement and a good shop in the OKC or Tulsa area to do the job. Unfortunately, arthritis and carpal tunnel in my wrists and hands will make it a difficult and painful job for me.


Thanks in advance for any suggestions y'all might have.
FL420,

Based on your write up, it is evident you performed a detailed analysis of the electrics pertinent to your Automatic Transfer Switch. I presume it is a Magnum looking at the last of the pictures you attached.

I do not have specific answers to your questions; however, I recently contacted Magnum in regard to a matter referencing the eleven batteries in our coach and, in my opinion, I received some excellent feedback that assisted me greatly.

May I suggest you contact them as well. Also, I am sure someone here on IRV2.com will chime in.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackMan View Post
FL420,

Based on your write up, it is evident you performed a detailed analysis of the electrics pertinent to your Automatic Transfer Switch. I presume it is a Magnum looking at the last of the pictures you attached.

I do not have specific answers to your questions; however, I recently contacted Magnum in regard to a matter referencing the eleven batteries in our coach and, in my opinion, I received some excellent feedback that assisted me greatly.

May I suggest you contact them as well. Also, I am sure someone here on IRV2.com will chime in.
Thanks for the quick response. My inverter is a Magnum but the ATS is an IOTA-50R.
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Old 05-30-2018, 04:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for the quick response. My inverter is a Magnum but the ATS is an IOTA-50R.
Correction: IOTA ITS-50R.
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:13 PM   #5
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Yes the Iota can be repaired by a competent tech. The relays can be replaced. They may only need to have the contacts burnished. They arc and spark, causing pitting and burning. A lot of wire to removed and replaced, just to get to the relays.
If that is not your bag of tea, replacement may be easier.

With Gen running.
Referencing photo 3 measure from the back to white and red to white of generator terminals on the far right for 120VAC.
then make the same measures on the far left terminals. They should be the same. If not Baf Iota!

With the gen running and no output, tapping on the box with an insulated tool may cause the contacts to conduct. If so replacement is probably your best bet.


FYI The numbers on the dip sw are one & zero. 1 is usually ON and 0 is off, but is not according to the manual.

Manual here http://www.nooutage.com/pdf/Iota-50rmanual.pdf

There have been some recalls with the Iota.

file:///C:/Users/Norm/Downloads/NHTSA_Safety_Issues%20(1).pdf


You can replace your iota transfer switch with these, Among others $125-$150

Www.powermaxconverters.com

https://ltdrvparts.com/WFCO-50-AMP-R...S-50R-T-57.htm



Good Luck
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:18 PM   #6
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Good afternoon FL420; In reading your post I thought, is that the transfer switch that had the recalls? I do not have that switch in my 01 Windsor. I put a search in at the top right of the page in this forum and lots of info came up when I put the model number you provided. Sorry I don't have any specific info on your problem.


You might want to do some checking to see if the problem you have is related to the recall. Might be, might not. Just came to mind reading your post. Good luck and I hope you get it fixed!
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:23 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by FL420 View Post
Thanks for the quick response. My inverter is a Magnum but the ATS is an IOTA-50R.

Oops, I sure missed that one.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:35 AM   #8
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Just wanted to let y'all that have helped me with this know how it came out.
Just replaced my failed IOTA-ITS50R with an ESCO LPT50BRD. Bought it based on reviews online, desired functions and capability to easily adapt to replace my existing ATS.
My decision was based on the size, location and number of knockouts and the ability to move the Ground wire terminal block to any of the 4 corners. I had to mount it upside down and move the Ground terminal block to the opposite corner for the easiest wiring install.
The ads for most of the ATSs don't show details like number and location of knockouts. They have few options for having the 3 big wire bundles to enter the box without a lot of muscling around and possibly extending wires. I am also more comfortable having the wiring inside a sturdy metal box instead of a plastic box which is less likely to contain a fire and more likely to contribute fuel to a fire.
Thanks to all for your help.
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