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Old 12-04-2011, 11:40 AM   #1
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ISC turbo bad?

Not a good day, I have a 2003(build date 11-2002) HR Scepter, 350 ISC. started it up yesterday to service and had oil coming out the exhaust, some exhaust smoke but very little. The oil isn't pouring out the exhaust pipe, just coming out at connection points in pipe. Lost maybe a pint in 20 minutes of moving and checking trouble. Exhaust has always run very clean. That was last nite, I will pull intake and exhaust, hopefully it is only on exhaust pipe side. I bought this coach used, only have put on 1500 miles of it;s 43,000 miles. It had service records and appeared to be in very good shape.
Has anyone replaced a turbo on one of these, what kind? how much, etc.
Just wondering how big a hole this will put in my wallet. May look at getting this one rebuilt, have to wait and see when I get prices, new vs rebuild.
Tell me your story, maybe it will make me feel better!
Thanks
John G.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:33 PM   #2
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update

I took turbo off, I don't think it is bad! There is oil coming from exhaust manifold. When this first happened there was some smoke from the exhaust, about the same as my old 1971 backhoe, when I shut it down I noticed oil from the front crank seal. The previous owner had catch can for the slobber tube, the hose went down and then uphill alittle to the container. This is a store bought unit, nothing madeup. I removed the slobber tube and put in a drain pan under the coach. When I started it up it ran clean but still oil dripping from exhaust. It funs fine, smooth idle and when give it throttle it revs up fine. seems smooth at all RPM's. I had to replace the warped exhaust manifold fight after I bought it.(Cummins in Coburg, Oregon did work). I have driven it 800-900 miles since with no problems, used no oil, and still seems to be at same point on the dipstick. I live west of Olympia and will talk to Cummin NW in Chehalis Monday. Not a good day a all!
John G
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:07 PM   #3
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I had to have a Turbo rebuilt on my previous my. I found a place that rebuilt truck turbos and took it to them. They replaced the center core and waste gate and it cost me $800
Something doesn't sound right because you can't have oil in the exhaust pipe without having blue smoke out the exhaust pipe. When a Turbo goes bad you get a ton of blue smoke out the exhaust. You also say you are not using oil so I would say that you do not have a problem with the Turbo.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:12 PM   #4
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Thanks Mike, your right, it doesnt make any sence, I have probably only run engine about 30-40 minutes total at pretty much an idle, checking this or that so probably wouldn't use much oil. My question now, is there a crack or gasket next to a (pressurized) oil passage in head that could feed oil to the exhaust? I've seen broken pistons and turbo's and there is aways alot of smoke! The 2 peice exhaust manifold looks like there is a small amount of oil at the parting line. so looks like it's coming from the head. I will talk to Cummins about that. I don't want to take it apart too far, I may have to drive it to turn it around and point it out of driveway, don't think it is drivable on road. Chehalis is 40 miles. Anybody else got an idea?
Thanks again Mike.
John G.
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Old 12-04-2011, 10:22 PM   #5
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Oil is normally fed to a Turbo via a braided steel flex line and then the have a return tube under them. Again if you have oil in an exhaust manifold then you will have blue smoke out the exhaust pipe. Diesels run rich at idle and that is one of the reasons you use the cruise control to bump up the idle rpm aswell as bumping up the oil pressure at idle. What you maybe seeing is residue of diesel fuel and not oil
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:31 AM   #6
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I agree with Mike....something just doesn't sound right here. And Mike makes a very good suggestion re idle. Sounds like you have been running your engine for short periods of time and at slow idle....not good on a diesel. You didn't say why you don't think it is driveable on the road....

This may be a major shot in the dark, but if it were me, I would clean up the exhaust pipe and connections as well as possible and then let the engine run at fast idle (900-1100 rpm) until it nears or reaches normal operating temp....this can take some time of course, so hang in there. (On our coach, fast idle is set by touching speed control "On", then touching "Set", being sure foot is not on brake.) Like Mike says, maybe you are seeing unburned diesel fuel or condensation from too much slow idle time, possibly "washing out" the exhaust sytem in the process. The resulting mixture of water, unburned fuel and exhaust pipe soot might look a bit like used oil. Not sure of your muffler location, but, in the past, mufflers were notorious collectors of condensation both from the environment AND the normal combustion process. Newer systems have drains that allow the condensation and moisture to escape. Depending on your coach's design, IMO you could get a pint of fluid that is exiting your exhaust pipe under the conditions you have described. It's worth a shot to try the above and see if there is any difference.

PLEASE let us know what you find out....thanks!

Am probably
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:38 AM   #7
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Just a refresher for Cummins diesel engine owners.

Cummins does NOT recommend idling the engine for anything less than a couple of minutes, otherwise it should be 1000 rpm or higher if you intend to idle the engine for any length of time.

The original owner stated that specifically to me when I purchased the coach from them. In fact, he said that when he had the coach in for service once, Cummins had pulled a scan of the ECM and the printout showed that the engine had been at low idle for long periods of time. That's when they told him NOT to do that as it is detrimental to the diesel engine.

Only a suggestion and opinion.

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Old 12-05-2011, 09:26 AM   #8
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Thanks for the replies guys, I can only hope it's fuel. I am anal about idleing and engine warmup. I alway preheat when outside temps are cold and never shut down until engine temp comes up and always increase rpm. This residue is black, I will double check what has dripped in my catch pans.
Thanks again
John G.
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:16 AM   #9
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Just a note, when I said preheat, I use block heater, plug in for 1-2 hrs. this time it was alittle over 2 hrs.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:06 PM   #10
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Oil is normally fed to a Turbo via a braided steel flex line and then the have a return tube under them. Again if you have oil in an exhaust manifold then you will have blue smoke out the exhaust pipe. Diesels run rich at idle and that is one of the reasons you use the cruise control to bump up the idle rpm aswell as bumping up the oil pressure at idle. What you maybe seeing is residue of diesel fuel and not oil
I thought diesels ran very lean at idle. That is why they cool off so much at idle. To run rich at idle there would have to be something to limit the air flow such as a throttle valve on a gas engine. My ISL idles at about 0.9 gph.
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:26 PM   #11
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Diesels run rich enough at low idle that the fuel can wash the oil off the cylinder walls and also dilute the oil
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:48 PM   #12
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Sounds like fuel or compression. Have injectors checked, and/or fuel settings. Have a compression test done. If the engine has been idled too much, possibly the top compression ring has 'glazed' and won't seal compression properly until the engine is under load. Make sure the coolant thermostats are working, temperature is being maintained at correct temperature.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:35 PM   #13
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I took the turbo to Cummins NW in Chehalis today, talked to Service Supv about the whole event, he said turbo looked fine, he was concerned about the catch can setup the previous owner had put on, after explaining and drawing alittle diagram he said it would not vent correctly. I forgot to mention before on the forum that it had pushed out some oil by the front crank seal, when I saw that is when I removed slobber tube from catch can and made sure it drained downhill to a pan. When I restarted it I had no more oil get pushed out the crank seal but still seemed to drip from the exhaust. He said if it did not vent or was plugged when I started it up it may do just what it did. He said put turbo back on and start it back up, take it for a good drive, it may clean itself up. So turbo is going back on should finish Tuesday morn.(they never go together a easy as taking apart it seems) not much fun on cardboard over gravel, but worth a try, at $100.00+ an hour I'll crawl around some.
Thanks for the replies, I'll post more after test.
John G.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJScepter View Post
So turbo is going back on should finish Tuesday morn.(they never go together a easy as taking apart it seems) not much fun on cardboard over gravel, but worth a try, at $100.00+ an hour I'll crawl around some.
Thanks for the replies, I'll post more after test.
John G.
I installed the Banks kit on our ISC on the gravel pad beside the stick house, but it was spring time too! New turbo housing, wiring to all engine sensors, electrical feed wire, new control box, even a new wire to the trans and wires to the dash for new gauges. Good fun and I'm glad I wasn't paying $100/hr to have it done!!!!!!
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