Community Forums

hlagooty · 12-10-2019, 05:30 PM

Ive found several beaver coaches for sale all about the same year from 94 to 1999. One is a marquis with big cat others are patriots. My question is the marquis is a 1998 around 100k miles, the best looking patriot is a 1999 about the same miles. The marquis is 29,000 the patriot is 25000, {both asking prices}. IS the marquis being a year older worth more than the newer patriot? My useage will be short weekend trips at first then longer distance stuff when we retire. I like the idea of the power the c12 would bring but overall is newer better even 1 year? Looking for opinions. would also welcome any current or former owners impressions on these two units.

Ivylog · 12-10-2019, 05:53 PM

Things that are standard on the Marquis are options (or not available) on a Patriot. I had a 98 40’ Patriot which was a good MH with beautiful woodwork. Always felt the air over hydraulic brakes were a little weak compared to air brakes. Assume the Marquis will have air brakes ...no air over hydraulic.
That vintage C12 is an excellent engine and has double the torque of the 3126 in the Patriot...enough said???

Outbound · 12-10-2019, 07:56 PM

Does either coach have slides or tag axles, that bumps the value of coach, all things being equal I would opt for Marquis, not much difference between 98/99. IMHO

CountryB · 12-11-2019, 04:24 AM

The Marquis was built on the Magnum D-series chassis (which is a modified Gillig chassis) and the Patriot was built on the SMC Magnum B-series.

The D-series chassis is superior and that alone make the Marquis a better buy. IMO.

See the link in my signature line, for more info.
Good luck

Busnut · 12-11-2019, 02:40 PM

The Beaver is a good coach. I had a 93 Beaver Baronet with a 3116 Caterpillar
engine. Good engine but hard to find people that work on a Caterpillar engine besides the dealer.

jacwjames · 12-12-2019, 08:40 AM

No idea on either coach but only suggestion would be to check tire DOT as a set of tires would easily offset the difference in price.

docj · 12-12-2019, 09:51 AM

FWIW, none of the coaches you are considering were built by Monaco, so it's not technically correct to post them in the Monaco forum. All of them were built by SMC, the Safari Motorcoach Company.

I agree with the previous posts that have noted that the Marquis has lots of features that aren't usually found on the Patriot, but I'd like to point out that there was a 3rd model built in the 1999-2001 timeframe which was called the Patriot Thunder. It had the solid, dependable C-12 engine from the Marquis in a chassis that was called the Magnum "C". That combination resulted in a 34,000 pound coach with an engine with 425 HP and 1550 lb-ft of torque! Thunder models were equipped with essentially all the options available on the Patriot. IMHO the interior cabinetry, for which Beaver was known, is just as pretty as the Marquis, although it was less formal in appearance.

I'm not claiming that the Marquis doesn't have a yet better chassis, but the lighter weight of the Thunder chassis makes for amazing performance in a big vehicle. I was once told by a Beaver "old timer" that the factory had held "drag races" between Thunder models at some rallies!

hlagooty · 12-12-2019, 11:00 AM

Your point of a Beaver not technically a Monaco is valid but I havent seen a pure Beaver owners group to post to. I would like a patriot thunder from what I can find out about them but they seem to be rare and scarce. I am shopping for a Beaver primarily on the reputation of quality on their older units. I cant justify the expense of newer quality units of other brands. And after attending the RV supershow in FL. I see a lack of care and workmanship in some high dollar coaches. I dont want glitz I want usability. After reviewing the two units
I find owners lie and gloss over many things when describing their units. I know buyer beware but.... One that is listed said it was beautiful, needed nothing and was a steal. Now its relisted needing tires, all woodwork refinished, and several other items all supposedly not being a big deal. The price dropped 3000. for probably 8000 or 9000 worth of repairs and I will bet a bunch more when really looked at. The other unit needs an awning , carpet etc but is closer to being as described. My point is you have to take ads with a HUGE grain of salt! What lengths did thunders come in pre 2001?

docj · 12-12-2019, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlagooty

Your point of a Beaver not technically a Monaco is valid but I havent seen a pure Beaver owners group to post to.

What lengths did thunders come in pre 2001?

As for there not being a dedicated Beaver group to post to, you are correct. Three is a Beaver Ambassador Club that exists as a separate entity, but most of its members own Monaco-built Beavers, so I decided it was of little benefit to me. The SMC Beaver period only lasted a few years so there weren't that many coaches on the road to start with and fewer are still intact today, I'm sure.

Our 2000 Thunder is 40' and I think all the SMC Thunders were, except, possibly a few "specials" built with a shorter length.

Good luck in finding a Thunder from that period. You might want to check with Beaver Coach Sales and Service in Bend OR. They have handled lots of Beaver re-sales over the years. Maybe they know of one that will be coming up for sale. You're probably ~10 years too early for us to offer you ours!

CountryB · 12-12-2019, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hlagooty

Your point of a Beaver not technically a Monaco is valid but I havent seen a pure Beaver owners group to post to. I would like a patriot thunder from what I can find out about them but they seem to be rare and scarce. I am shopping for a Beaver primarily on the reputation of quality on their older units.
The other unit needs an awning , carpet etc but is closer to being as described. My point is you have to take ads with a HUGE grain of salt! What lengths did thunders come in pre 2001?

The best years for a Beaver Patriot Thunder, IMO, is 2003 to 2005 because 2003 is the first year the Thunder came with a Tag Axle, they were built on the Magnum D chassis (a Gillig chassis design first used for the Marquis in 1998) ,and it was before the CAT C13 engine went to the ARD head and added DPF (emissions). Also up to June 2005 the Beavers were still built (by Beaver) in the Beaver facility in Bend OR.

Also in 2006 the multiplex wiring was first used (which is more complicated and expensive to fix) although the 2006 and up used the Roadmaster S-series chassis (a very good chassis).

vito.a · 12-12-2019, 01:53 PM

I agree Beaver coaches are very high quality. The interior wood work is the finest I've ever seen in a motor home at any price. The rumor was Monaco purchased Safari/Beaver to acquire the wood shop and the storehouse of hardwoods.

You should also look at Country Coach, Foretravel, and high end Monaco coaches of that era. All are built on custom chassis and very high quality.

hlagooty · 12-13-2019, 07:45 PM

Several people have mentioned the c12 in either the thunder or the Marquis and I admit more power appeals to me, however Im not findind many of those units. So how well does the little C7 cat handle a patriot 38 footer in the hills and open road. I dont need to go 85mph uphill but crawling along isnt my thing either.

CountryB · 12-14-2019, 04:31 AM

I have not driven a Patriot with C7 but I imagine it will get the job done (it has a lot of torque).

There are similar size and weight coaches with the Cummins ISB 6.7 engine (350 HP and 650 torque ratings) and not many are complaining here about power (however the majority are probably found in coaches under 38 ft).

The C7 in the '98 Patiot was either 300hp and 860 lb-ft or 330 hp w 860 tq.

The C12 is 425 HP with 1550 lb-ft torque, and it's the torque that gets the job done.
so ....

Ivylog · 12-14-2019, 07:31 AM

For 14 years I thought I was happy with a rig that was slightly below the 100 lbs/1 HP rule of thumb. Now that I can pass when I can see a vehicle coming the other way on a 2 lane or pull out to pass on a 4 lane (into a hole that’s not 2 football fields long) without holding up those in the left lane...if the Marquis checks out, BUY IT!

Using HP is a mistake...it’s torque that ^^^^ “gets the job done”. My 1650 ftlbs on a heavier rig compared to 1200 may not seem like much of a difference BUT IT IS.