Monaco Bankruptcy - Proof of claim Form

[Ed_G]

Today ( July 21, 2009 ) I receive a letter from the US Bankruptcy Court handling the Monaco Bankruptcy case. It was essentially a notice of conversion of Chapter 11 to Chapter 7 and in it were some instructions along with an official Proof of Claim form. It would appear that I might be able to submit this claim for some warranty work recently done on my own dime, however I was having some difficulty determining if in fact I could do this, given the rather broad and general nature of the instructions in the letter.

My Question: Has anyone else with a new Monaco RV received this letter recently, and if so, are you planning on submitting warranty claim work on the enclosed Proof of Claim form?

[moisheh]

Why bother: There is no extra cash to pay unsecured creditors. There is not enough to pay the secured creditors. Save the postage. BTW: RE: your post on Monaco caring enough to have your Coach Net reinstated. Big deal. Probably cost Monaco nothing. Did they reinstate your warranty? Did they pay you for the warranty work??

[Ed_G]

Why bother? I could respond with, " Why not?". Maybe its like buying a lottery ticket. Sure, it might cost me 50 cents to mail the thing, but I have over $2000 in warranty expenses. Even if I got only 5% of that back, it would be $100 I don't have right now. As far as assets go, I'm not so sure about any total lack of funds.... after all, they did have a number of RV Parks being sold along with some other facilities not purchased by Navistar. I'm willing to make the effort... I was just wondering if anyone else had received the Conversion of Chapter 11 to 7 notice.

Personally I wouldn't be so quick to blame "Monaco" for the current lack of warranty support.... it really isn't their call anymore... it's Navistar's.... which is a different group of people.

[Jim Stewart]

Ed-G,

I did get the same letter today and I will not file either. By all means, if you want, you should file, however, there appears to be no money left, even after the Parks were sold. Warranty claims would be at the bottom of the list. I too am out about $2,500.00 for a recall that affects safety that I had to have done, Monaco LLC would not honor recalls either.

The same people that ran Monaco Coach are now running Monaco LLC, they just report to Navistar, the same people whose CEO was on the Board of Directors of Monaco Coach since 2005. Nothing has changed except a lot of people got stiffed. The market still sucks and will continue for a long time.

If the market stays this bad for a long period, you can expect Monaco LLC to go the same way as Monaco Coach. They are structured as a separate LLC and could easily do the same Chapter 11/7 if it does not improve. I would not buy a product from the new Monaco LC for fear that I would get stiffed twice. History and CEOs tend to repeat themselves!

Moishe, A little harsh on Ed, I'm sure you did not mean to offend him, we all seem to be a little surly on this issue.

Love Jim

[brucemcdou]

Ed - we received the same notice yesterday, 7/21. We actually received two copies of it: one in my name only and one jointly. We already submitted a claim for our approved but unpaid warranty work ($2700) as a creditor in the Chapter 11 process and need to figure out if that claim will automatically be carried over or if we should resubmit afresh under the Chapter 7 process.

As you note, there is no disadvantage to filing other than your time to assemble the information. I understand that warranty claims are considered unsecured and are therefore the last on the list but I think it is possible that the creditors and/or the judge might lump all warranty claims together as a class and pay out something pro-rata.

I also intend to use the fact that I was reduced to filing a claim as a creditor in bankruptcy as a point of discussion with the "new" Monaco if I ever calm down enough to send them a letter telling them I would never buy from them so long as the same executives are there. As a lawyer I completely understand what they are doing; as a customer I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. My business will go to one of their better managed competitors the next time around: Tiffin, Newmar, maybe Winnebago. In the meanwhile we're enjoying a pretty darn nice coach.

[blacktie.shooter]

Originally Posted by brucemcdou

Ed . . I understand that warranty claims are considered unsecured and are therefore the last on the list but I think it is possible that the creditors and/or the judge might lump all warranty claims together as a class and pay out something pro-rata. . . As a lawyer I completely understand what they are doing; as a customer I don't trust them as far as I can throw them. . .

As a lawyer, you are certainly qualified to make that statement, but I must say, it surprises me. I am not a lawyer, but have been involved in a couple of Chapter 7 conversions, and in both cases the secured creditors got paid first; otherwise, what is the point of being secured?

[brucemcdou]

Originally Posted by blacktie.shooter

As a lawyer, you are certainly qualified to make that statement, but I must say, it surprises me. I am not a lawyer, but have been involved in a couple of Chapter 7 conversions, and in both cases the secured creditors got paid first; otherwise, what is the point of being secured?

Hi, Blacktie - I think we agree! As a customer with an approved warranty claim against a bankrupt company, I am unsecured in the bankruptcy process. Therefore, I'm behind all the secured creditors (and the rest of the people with higher priority in the bankruptcy process). I'm just saying that I get that, I understand that.

[Dick & Pat]

Unsecured creditors DO get some reimbursement on occassion. We experienced this as farm equipment wholesalers, and on rare occassions would get a small check from the Courts for unsecured debt of a Chapter 7 dealer.

1. I'd fill it out & buy the stamp...not much to lose.
2. I'd buy another brand next time.

[moisheh]

ED: I did not intend to hurt your feelings. I guess I get enraged at the whole outcome of the bankruptcy. I am a businessman and have never gotten a penny when there was not enough to cover the secured creditors. And there definitely is not enough to even pay the banks. I still think that "something is rotten in Denmark" Or in this case Oregon. We will probably never know but it sure seems like this was a "planned" event. I bet there were a lot of angry people at that Rally.

[Ed_G]

Moisheh, no offense taken. Its hard to determine subtle meanings in these commentaries, and its also hard to read just how people are responding. I do know how frustrating and angry some Monaco people are over the happenings. Again, no offense taken. Take care.

[cb5300]

Originally Posted by moisheh

ED: I did not intend to hurt your feelings. I guess I get enraged at the whole outcome of the bankruptcy. I am a businessman and have never gotten a penny when there was not enough to cover the secured creditors. And there definitely is not enough to even pay the banks. I still think that "something is rotten in Denmark" Or in this case Oregon. We will probably never know but it sure seems like this was a "planned" event. I bet there were a lot of angry people at that Rally.

Moisheh,

It's my understanding that the banks have been paid....At the hearing that I went to the banks were getting paid from the proceeds of the sale of Monaco and of the resorts...

You are very correct in the statement of something being rotten in Oregon... I truely believe that every person should voice their thoughts to the Monaco executives each and everytime you see them, and better yet, let your wallet do the talking....It'll be a cold day in you know where before I buy another Monaco product.

[moisheh]

I dont think there was enough money to pay the banks in total. But were there not other creditors who were higher up the food chain that got bapkas? I have also read that the old Monaco is now in Chapter 7.

[cb5300]

Originally Posted by moisheh

I dont think there was enough money to pay the banks in total. But were there not other creditors who were higher up the food chain that got bapkas? I have also read that the old Monaco is now in Chapter 7.

There wasn't enough money just from the sale of Monaco, but when you factor in the sale of the resorts there was enough to cover the banks...at least that's what my notes from the hearing shows. Now that Monaco Coach is filing chapter 7 then the money from the sale of the remainder of Monaco property should provide some money for warranty claims.

[Bill2]

We got the same letter the other day, and we just filed it where it will go away in about 6 months. No other plans for it right now.