Monaco vs Holiday Rambler?

[Ask Byron]

I too am looking for a used DP Want a 30 or 32 ft. Seems like HR Neptune is the most available. Found a few Caymans Knight. I like your deal on the hot water mixing valve. I bought one for my Gasser but never put it on. Thanks for your link.
Byron White
Nashville TN

[Ask Byron]

Don't forget the Cummins Blocks that were made in Brazil and had too thin a water jacket. I think the casting number was 53. It would be on the 300 models i believe. Buy one of those and you are headed for a new engine.

[cbr46]

Originally Posted by Ask Byron

Don't forget the Cummins Blocks that were made in Brazil and had too thin a water jacket. I think the casting number was 53. It would be on the 300 models i believe. Buy one of those and you are headed for a new engine.

I hadn't heard that one, but a little research can fill in the gap.
https://dieseliq.com/cummins-diesel-engine-53-block/




And let us not forget the Roadmaster R4R / R4RR trailing link recall.

http://sourcerv.com/RoadmasterR4R_FMC1109.pdf

In our search we found several Neptunes and they looked to be a good size for what we do, but they were far away. We ended up going with an Endeavor that was only 2.5 hours away.

Best,
- bob

[Dr. Mike]

Originally Posted by vito.a

I would be very careful if the 2011 Sceptor has a Navistar MaxForce engine in it.
Both the 2011 and the 2014 are going to have DPF and possibly DEF emissions.

Hi
The Sceptor has a Cummins 450 ISL. I have spent a considerable amount of time on this site (and love it!) to know that a 2011 should have DEF, but for the life of me I can’t find the tank on the vehicle. I have also heard good and bad comments about the Aquahot 450 which this vehicle has.
I am actually leaning toward the Prevost. It is a bit older, but has had a complete upgrade (new tires, shocks, battery, entire front and rear caps, new granite floors and counter top).

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by Dr. Mike

Hi
The Sceptor has a Cummins 450 ISL. I have spent a considerable amount of time on this site (and love it!) to know that a 2011 should have DEF, but for the life of me I can’t find the tank on the vehicle. I have also heard good and bad comments about the Aquahot 450 which this vehicle has.
I am actually leaning toward the Prevost. It is a bit older, but has had a complete upgrade (new tires, shocks, battery, entire front and rear caps, new granite floors and counter top).

The brochure for the 2011 Scepter specifies the ISL 425, not the 450. IIRC the 425 in a DPF engine and the 450 uses DPF.

The Prevost is in a completely different class from the HR and Newmar coaches. Its chassis is more similar to Monaco's "S" chassis than to the rail chassis on Scepter and Mountain aire coaches. If anything Prevost chassis is superior to anything from Monaco HR or Country coach. The engine in an 03 Prevost is most likely a DD60, again far above the ISL in performance, but thirster of course. :-)

There will be huge differences in Prevost appointments since many converters made vastly different choices there. So, it's important to know the converter, (e.g. Marathon, Liberty, etc...). Most Prevost conversions will be built with high-level and high-dollar components as well; for example you' may find bus air units instead of the roof mounted Dometic or Coleman AC's, appliances like Sub-Zeros and Wolfs. These are the stuff of the megabuc coaches but rarely found in even the high end DP's. If you are leaning that way, the best info (and advice) you can get will be from those who have familiarity with Prevosts and the converter who built it out; I defer to them.

Good luck.

[JJTL]

Originally Posted by Dr. Mike

“Buy the biggest/best used one you can get. You're going to have to fix it no matter what.”

This is probably my most favorite quote on the site!
As usual- I have some questions:
Which brand is the easiest to fix?
I am currently looking at a 2011 Scepter, 2012 Mountain Aire, and a 2003 Prevost. All are within a few thousand.
Can anyone toss me a bone on which is better or even pros and cons?

All things being equal, the 2003 Prevost seems like the no brainer to me*. Regardless of the age (Prevosts change very little over the years), as others have mentioned there is a huge difference in chassis and construction. The Prevost is completely stainless steel (wont rust) full monocoque structure. This means the side walls are actually part of the structural chassis. They were designed to protect 50 odd people in a full roll over. The DD60 is one of the best diesel engines built for its era, still millions running today (although sometimes on the thirsty side).

*Of course all things are not all equal. Prevost provides the chassis, a converter like Marathon, Liberty, etc completes the coach side. The quality of conversions can vary greatly from converter to converter, especially back in the day when there were so many. So certainly the quality of the conversion (does the converter still exist) will factor into the decision. Secondly, Prevost conversions were always ahead of the industry when it comes to technology. This means these conversions tend to be very complex, with many many systems. These systems are now 18 years old in the unit you are considering, they will require much on going maintenance and likely a lot of upgrades. I personally enjoy doing these things (see my thread), but you may be different. I would set aside a $20,000 or so fund for maintenance and upgrades. Finally, on the chassis side Prevost provides very high quality and typically fast service (they have to get commercial buses in and out quickly). However, service and parts is quite expensive for these rigs, so if you are not likely to do your own work, another important factor to consider.

All that being said, I've always been a fan of the Prevosts and certainly would love to own one, one day. If your comfortable sharing pics of the unit you're considering, I would be more than happy to drool over them. Are you looking at a X3 or H3 model?

All the best with your search!
Josh

[RobbieH]

Don't forget Safari. 8 bag Roadmaster, side radiator, and Caterpillar power.

I sold my Safari a few months ago and it was a FANTASTIC coach. I'd totally 100% do it again.

[jimmy braden]

Originally Posted by cbr46

I hadn't heard that one, but a little research can fill in the gap.
https://dieseliq.com/cummins-diesel-engine-53-block/




And let us not forget the Roadmaster R4R / R4RR trailing link recall.

http://sourcerv.com/RoadmasterR4R_FMC1109.pdf

In our search we found several Neptunes and they looked to be a good size for what we do, but they were far away. We ended up going with an Endeavor that was only 2.5 hours away.

Best,
- bob

The 53 blocks are only on ISB5.9 liter motors. And usually only late 1998-2001.

[Glang11082]

Our 2007 Ambassador has 8 air bags RR8R not RR4R as shown in the list.

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by Glang11082

Our 2007 Ambassador has 8 air bags RR8R not RR4R as shown in the list.

You are correct. The '05 and up Knight went from the RR4 to the RR8 chassis construction. I think your Ambassador is sister coach to the Knight so it probably also had that change.

The chart which was posted evidently refers to an earlier model year. Monaco/HR has changed major aspects of their lines at times. Another, around '03, was the Windsor changed over from the "S" series Semi-monocoque chassis to the RR8S raised rail chassis. I believe the 'sister' HR Imperial changed over at the same time. According to brochures, the '06 Imperial was again built on the Semi-monocoque chassis but it's "sister" Monaco Windsor was still on the RR8s.

[MSHappyCampers]

Monaco built some really great quality coaches in the early 2000's. I would look at the Windsor and upward. We really love our 2002 Windsor!

[Glang11082]

Thanks for reply. Yes the 2007 Ambassador and Knight are pretty much identical. Electrical drawing for them are identical I have a copy REV sent me.
Gary

[cbr46]

The saga continues . . . . .

First, photos 2002 HR Endeavor 38 PBDD -

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ravqcuid8...KkjBt_2Ha?dl=0

Second, we got her home and noticed she's listing, losing ~90 psi (120 to 30) in 18 hrs. Looks like we can start replacing air bags. This wasn't noticed until we got her in the driveway. It wasn't there when we stopped for lunch (1st meal in our new coach). I'm reasonably competent but no truck mechanic . . . . something a shade tree mechanic can do?

And the tires are 7 yrs old, which we knew before the purchase. Seller said his Tire Minder TPMS system will detect low pressure / high temp before any catastrophes. I know everyone will scream REPLACE THE TIRES but I might push it a bit, relying on the Tire Minder to let me know before it's too late.

Putting it in the shop isn't on my list of things to do . . . . . Let the horror stories begin!

Best,
- bob & anita

[jacwjames]

Your air pressure drop may not be the air bags. I rarely read of air bag failures. Lots of other potential points that you could be loosing air from that are not as daunting to repair.



I would use some ramps to elevate the rig up so you can safely get under it and then start looking for the source of the leak(s).



When I bought my rig in 2008 the tires were aged out but the front had a bad wear pattern (Goodyear rivering). The rear looked good. It did not have a TPMS. I drove it home 800 miles and first thing I did was get new front tires and had a front end alignment. I then installed a TPMS. Within 6 months we went on a trip to AK, 15k miles. Ultimately I did replace the rear tires in 2011.

So do a good visual inspection on the tires. Monitor for any weather cracking. Monitor the TPMS religiously. Your call on whether to replace, at minimum I'd consider doing the front.