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Old 08-12-2020, 09:05 AM   #29
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This is how I understand it so someone will correct me if I am wrong I am sure. This is from reading my brains out on the information available on this product and the issues of the original Road Master chassis on some coaches.
If your coach drives great, awesome.

Center of gravity is when weight is lowered in the vehicle. The watts link lowers the roll center, not the center of gravity.

This roll center point is lowered with the watts because the "pivot location" side to side is lowered with the watts linkage installed.
The Watts is approx center of the H Frame assembly. The single pan hard bar from the factory is mounted several inches above the Top of the H frame and is the current roll center. Pretty sure that if a second pan hard bar was installed below the H Frame this would lower the Roll center also.

I am currently installing a Watts on my coach. It Drives pretty good and does not hunt around constantly like some apparently do, but I am looking for a more relaxing drive. Pulling a trailer we DO NOT run 70 MPH and get passed by a lot of semi's. I am hoping for less correction and stress from the wind buffeting the coach. Again, not bad on mine but the X bars helped and I am confident the Watts will also.

If anyone wants to "throw me under the bus" for this info just throw me under my Dynasty. I spend a lot of time working under there anyway!
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:04 AM   #30
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I see the terms “roll center” and “center of gravity” (which are not the same), used throughout this post. It appears that the Watts Link is only affecting the “roll center”. Is that correct?
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Old 08-12-2020, 10:06 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Kramer View Post
This is how I understand it so someone will correct me if I am wrong I am sure. This is from reading my brains out on the information available on this product and the issues of the original Road Master chassis on some coaches.
If your coach drives great, awesome.

Center of gravity is when weight is lowered in the vehicle. The watts link lowers the roll center, not the center of gravity.

This roll center point is lowered with the watts because the "pivot location" side to side is lowered with the watts linkage installed.
The Watts is approx center of the H Frame assembly. The single pan hard bar from the factory is mounted several inches above the Top of the H frame and is the current roll center. Pretty sure that if a second pan hard bar was installed below the H Frame this would lower the Roll center also.

I am currently installing a Watts on my coach. It Drives pretty good and does not hunt around constantly like some apparently do, but I am looking for a more relaxing drive. Pulling a trailer we DO NOT run 70 MPH and get passed by a lot of semi's. I am hoping for less correction and stress from the wind buffeting the coach. Again, not bad on mine but the X bars helped and I am confident the Watts will also.

If anyone wants to "throw me under the bus" for this info just throw me under my Dynasty. I spend a lot of time working under there anyway!
I put the cross brace on first, then the rear watts on 6 months later. 6 months after that, I installed the front watts. Each time I did one of the listed improvements, I felt an slight but obvious improvement. Even as a passenger, my wife noticed I could stay in lanes easier with ease.

I agree with you and several others that mentioned you don't lower the center of gravity. The 'roll center' concept is easier to visualize. The Watts mechanical linkage is lower than the panhard connection.
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Old 08-12-2020, 11:18 AM   #32
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For what its worth, I am going to install the cross brace first. Then I will evaluate the next move. My coach handles great, but any improvement is always good.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 08-12-2020, 12:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillbox View Post
For what its worth, I am going to install the cross brace first. Then I will evaluate the next move. My coach handles great, but any improvement is always good.
Just my 2 cents.
Terry
I would check your steering box before you install the x bars and adjust it, if it's ajustable. Lots of reading about it too, if needed.
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Old 08-12-2020, 02:17 PM   #34
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The lower roll center was a side benefit of the watts. The purpose of the project was to keep the H frame assembly from moving side to side in the chassis.
That is how I understand it.
I will try to report back after a planned trip in September.
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Old 08-12-2020, 06:30 PM   #35
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How to wind friends and influence people... I still have my pin from Dale Carnegie. Lowered roll center or center gravity is pure BS. If you want a lower roll center or center of gravity you would have decrease the ride height or put heavy things in the basement.
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Old 08-12-2020, 07:35 PM   #36
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I have just completed the install of the watts link (front only). This install made a big improvement in the handling of our coach. Prior to this, I bought and installed the Source engineering kit the included bilstein shocks and front and rear sway bars. I installed a safe - t- plus steering control and the rear x-braces. The difference in drivability and control are black and white-much much better control and handling. I took the unit for a test drive this past Sunday and could feel the contact with the steer tires through the steering wheel-felt kinda of like a go-cart setup. I will continue to improve the coach with the install of the TRW box probably spring of 2021. When i bought this coach in February this year and drove it 130 miles home, not only did I lose a hubcap trying to fill a pothole but I really thought I made and poor decision buying a coach that handled as bad as it did.I am now looking forward to driving the s@#% out of this thing.
ps- when I returned from my Sunday morning test drive my wife looked at her life 360 and said it must have worked well cause your top speed was 76 mph!
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Old 08-12-2020, 09:15 PM   #37
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The list of why it handles poorly:
King Pins
Tie rod ends
Toe in/out
Wheel bearings
Tires
Shocks
Alignment all axles
Ride height
Camber
Castor
Grease
Steering u-joints
Steering fluid
And list goes on
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Old 08-13-2020, 07:11 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Kramer View Post
The lower roll center was a side benefit of the watts. The purpose of the project was to keep the H frame assembly from moving side to side in the chassis.
That is how I understand it.
I will try to report back after a planned trip in September.
Rusty,

Maybe the attached sketch will help you visualize what is going on with the H-frame and consequently the axle and tires because they are attached to the H-frame. The purpose of the PanHard bar is to keep the H-frame from moving side to side (lateral motion) and the trailing arms stabilize the H-frame front to back. The Panhard bar and the trailing arms are attached with bushings that allow vertical movement of the axle/H-frame. As the coach ages these bushings become more flexible. The single Panhard bar provides a fulcrum point for the H-frame to wiggle around that tie point even through the trailing arms are there. With the large side area of the coach a side wind or passing truck can create a considerable force pushing the coach. This will cause the front wheels to point in a direction that you are not pointing them. If the bushings are extremely worn or loose or there is movement of the Pittman arm due to slack in the steering box, the H-frame will move when the coach is traveling at highway speeds. This results in wander or poor steering response.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sketch of H-fram wiggle with a single PanHard bar.pdf (175.4 KB, 7 views)
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Old 08-13-2020, 08:22 AM   #39
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Got it Bob thanks! I was just trying to explain the best I could from what I have read. Was it you and Van Williams that did the first prototype Watts?
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Old 08-14-2020, 07:04 AM   #40
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Got it Bob thanks! I was just trying to explain the best I could from what I have read. Was it you and Van Williams that did the first prototype Watts?
Yes it was.

Bob
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Old 08-16-2020, 01:16 PM   #41
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Every person I talked to who had installed a FRONT Watts link always made the comment that the "lean" in cornering was very noticeably less after the installation. I don't honestly know how much the lean is reduced, but I certainly know the "feeling". Going through a long sweeping curve has an altogether different, more solid feel after installing the FRONT Watts link. It is UNMISTAKEABLE.

It was best stated by a fellow who said this--"I installed front and rear anti-sway bars hoping to make my coach feel more stable and I was very disappointed in the result. Installing this front Watts link gave me the result I wanted from the anti-sway bars."

The first installation of a FRONT Watts link on a tag-axle coach was on Dave Pratt's 2005 Executive. Dave is a very technically competent guy and I had asked him to install the Watts link on his coach as a favor to me. I wanted him to give me his honest opinion on whether it was any benefit for a coach that already handled well and tracked straight. Dave's comment, "I could feel the difference before I even got out of my driveway." I would certainly think that the improvement one would get from the FRONT Watts link installation on a tag-axle coach would be less than on a single rear axle coach, but the difference is very real.
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