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Old 09-17-2013, 03:52 AM   #15
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Dennis
He was referring to the DC load on the inverter. If a Refer when running draws 15 amps at 120 VAC the amperage draw on a 12 VDC battery bank through an inverter would be about 165 amps. That is not count counting for losses through the inverter itself.
Assume there is a 200 amp alternator supplying power to the battery bank and you will there is nothing left over. On a good day that alternator will only put out maybe 150 amps when the engine is running wide open. You can probably see the problem.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:07 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Dennis
He was referring to the DC load on the inverter. If a Refer when running draws 15 amps at 120 VAC the amperage draw on a 12 VDC battery bank through an inverter would be about 165 amps. That is not count counting for losses through the inverter itself.
Assume there is a 200 amp alternator supplying power to the battery bank and you will there is nothing left over. On a good day that alternator will only put out maybe 150 amps when the engine is running wide open. You can probably see the problem.
Fair Winds
Dave
I'm not sure where the 15 amp number is coming from. My reefer (Panasonic compressor) draws under 2 amps at 120vac normal running ... 10 amps at 120vac on start. That's about 20 amps at 12vdc for a run current and 120 amps at 12vdc for a start.

A typical motorhome alternator/battery bank/inverter should have no trouble with this (other than the possible MSW-PSW concern).

I think the 15 amp number may be from some of the spec sheets that are referring to recommended circuit size.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:28 AM   #17
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I'm not sure where the 15 amp number is coming from. My reefer (Panasonic compressor) draws under 2 amps at 120vac normal running ... 10 amps at 120vac on start. That's about 20 amps at 12vdc for a run current and 120 amps at 12vdc for a start.

A typical motorhome alternator/battery bank/inverter should have no trouble with this (other than the possible MSW-PSW concern).

I think the 15 amp number may be from some of the spec sheets that are referring to recommended circuit size.

I am just quoting what Dennis told me about the Samsung Refer. I don't know what model he has. I do know that a 200 amp automotive alternator will put out only about 40% of the rated amperage. The 200 number is full load at max rpm. Continuous load can only be a few minutes without the alternator burning up. I mean that literally it will catch on fire.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:57 AM   #18
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I have put in half doz samsungs in monaco rigs. They only run if temp in rig is under 90 about 20 min every few hours they are well insulated and if you do not open the doors and have them fastened shut while traveling they do not draw down the inverter/ battery power while driving. While traveling without water pressure to icemaker make sure you turn off the icemaker it makes freezer work hard to make ice or try to if no water pressure...

Ii will guess OP is correct he has an issue with getting alt output power to batteries. Take a voltmeter to batteries with eng running and see if you have 13 volts at both sets of batteries, if not go back to the isolator and check output posts and see if one is higher than the other.

I only know how my dynasty with solar charger works so anything else is just a guess. Good luck.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:06 AM   #19
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I am just quoting what Dennis told me about the Samsung Refer. I don't know what model he has. I do know that a 200 amp automotive alternator will put out only about 40% of the rated amperage. The 200 number is full load at max rpm. Continuous load can only be a few minutes without the alternator burning up. I mean that literally it will catch on fire.
Thanks. I think Dennis' math is fuzzy.

"The Samsungs average draw is on the order of 100 to 200 Watts, NOT amps. This equates to around 10 to 20 amps, when the compressor is running"

Assuming the 100-200 watts is at 120vac, the current is only 1-2 amps at 120vac and 10-20 amps at 12vdc.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:10 AM   #20
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I have put in half doz samsungs in monaco rigs. They only run if temp in rig is under 90 about 20 min every few hours they are well insulated and if you do not open the doors and have them fastened shut while traveling they do not draw down the inverter/ battery power while driving. While traveling without water pressure to icemaker make sure you turn off the icemaker it makes freezer work hard to make ice or try to if no water pressure...

Ii will guess OP is correct he has an issue with getting alt output power to batteries. Take a voltmeter to batteries with eng running and see if you have 13 volts at both sets of batteries, if not go back to the isolator and check output posts and see if one is higher than the other.

I only know how my dynasty with solar charger works so anything else is just a guess. Good luck.
Agreed ... I don't see this as being a load problem. Either there is no device to charge the House bats from the engine alternator or that device is malfunctioning.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:00 AM   #21
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UPDATE:

Well I got the new battery isolator and installed it in MN where we were camped. We left on Sunday just behind a front and drove to Crawfordsville, Indiana and stayed at the WalMart. My wife drove the second leg after 2 hours. I went back to check the Trace Monitor to see if all was working ok. The Trace said that the batteries were only charged to 74%. I immediately knew that the new isolator did NOT fix my problem. Oh well, there's another $100 lesson.

I then started thinking about the 4 new batteries. Could one be bad? That would explain why I only had 3/4 of the charge on batteries.

2 days after arriving home I pulled open the battery tray and took off a couple of cables to isolate the batteries. In the process, I found a loose nut on a battery clamp. I measured all batteries and they were all the same. I tightened all nuts. Went back in to check out the Trace and saw it was reading absorption charge.

I then remembered that I never noticed absorption or float charge after I put in the new batteries. So, for the time being, I think I found my problem. I guess that $100 for a lesson could b considered cheap.

Anyone need a battery isolator?

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Old 10-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #22
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UPDATE:

Well I got the new battery isolator and installed it in MN where we were camped. We left on Sunday just behind a front and drove to Crawfordsville, Indiana and stayed at the WalMart. My wife drove the second leg after 2 hours. I went back to check the Trace Monitor to see if all was working ok. The Trace said that the batteries were only charged to 74%. I immediately knew that the new isolator did NOT fix my problem. Oh well, there's another $100 lesson.

I then started thinking about the 4 new batteries. Could one be bad? That would explain why I only had 3/4 of the charge on batteries.

2 days after arriving home I pulled open the battery tray and took off a couple of cables to isolate the batteries. In the process, I found a loose nut on a battery clamp. I measured all batteries and they were all the same. I tightened all nuts. Went back in to check out the Trace and saw it was reading absorption charge.

I then remembered that I never noticed absorption or float charge after I put in the new batteries. So, for the time being, I think I found my problem. I guess that $100 for a lesson could b considered cheap.

Anyone need a battery isolator?

Pat
Sorry for the lesson Pat but glad you found the problem. There are two kinds of knowledge, education and wisdom. I guess you just finished another course in the wisdom curricular!

P.S. Get yourself back to Tennessee before the snow gets you!

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Old 10-02-2013, 06:19 PM   #23
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Uh OK, some simple lessons in charging are appropriate in this discussion. It doesn't matter how many amps your alternator puts out if they don't reach the batteries. My first question is how big is the wire running from the alternator to the batteries. If you answer with a 12 gauge wire, you will never charge those batteries even if you drive non stop. The max voltage just can't get back to the batteries without loss of voltage through an undersized wire. If you really want current to charge those batteries, up the wire size from the alternator to the batteries to a # 4 wire. Second, a battery isolator is a big diode. Diodes have large resistance one direction and low resistance the other direction. Wait, did I say low resistance? Yes, they do conduct the current with low resistance.... but if you are trying to wring out every amp and volt of charging voltage to your batteries why would you put a resistor in line? Don't! Use a starter relay with nearly 0 loss and up size all connections to/from your batteries. If the wires between batteries or to ground is a # 8 wire how do you expect to be efficient at charging? Take out that miserable undersized wiring and connect your batteries and grounds with a 4/0 wire so no current or voltage loss occurs in the wiring. Sure 4/0 wire is pricy, why do you think you got a # 6 wire in that 200,000$ coach? With todays copper prices expect to pay anywhere from 10-20 dollars a foot for 4/0 wire depending on location. My best prices always come from a welding supply that sells lots of large cable and they will have and sell by the foot #4, #2, #1, and 2/0, 4/0 cables and their respective size end lugs.
Do a systematic approach to wiring and especially with 12 DC. It doesn't take much voltage drop to render a 12 volt system unusable no matter how good the components are. That is primarily the reason newer cars and military vehicles with lots of electrical stuff on board are going to 24 volt or even 48 volt systems. Remember Ohms law. V=IR.
Why is it always said that between a battery bank and an inverter are you told to keep wires as short as possible and the connections should be made with 4/0 cable and clean copper heavy duty lugs. Why? To prevent voltage loss. 3 10ths of a volt doesn't sound like much but with an inverter, it can mean the difference between 95 volts and 110 volts output. Same is true for your charging circuits.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:47 AM   #24
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Glad you found the problem. I have a Samsung 197, also. I regularly arrive at destination with close to 100% house battery, just from the alternator. We have 4 old style 6 volts for the house. Running the 'fridge on battery alone we get ~30 hours before a charge is needed. BTW, best mod in the world is to be free of the Nevercold.
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Old 10-07-2013, 07:53 AM   #25
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Gl;ad you found it and if you had a tech troubleshoot it the cost would have been much higher and you know more about your systems now.

As a temporary fix or to Isolate a problem with an Isolator you can just stack the cables together to bypass it. If the voltage on the weak batteries goes up you know the isolator is bad. A simple front to back ratio with a diode checker should work as well if you know how to use that function on a multimeter.

The other temporary fix is to run the generator while traveling. Nice thing is that will allow you to run with a dead alternator as well.
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