Community Forums

billsmax · 03-06-2011, 06:35 AM

When I bought my 2008 Signature last Mar, the dealer installed 4 chassis Lifeline batteries. But frequently when I would go to crank my 600hp, I would have a dash display of "Low Battery" and it was very slow turning over. Tech told me that was the default display and was normal.
Now I've owned the coach for a year and about 5% of the time, I have to use boost to start.
I was assuming I had a bad battery or maybe these 4 batteries weren't actually replaced. So had tech check into problem again at dealer this month. Now 2 techs are telling me that this is normal with the 600hp engine and really no problem. They suggest putting an Echo Charger on.
If you have an all electric with 600hp Cummins, I would love to hear if you have this same situation or not.

Mike Canter · 03-06-2011, 07:32 AM

Hi Bill, on my 2004 Sig with the big Detroit motor it turns over fast and starts right away with two Interstate Workaholic batteries. The fact that you get a Low Battery Warning and your motor turns over slowing pretty well means that it is all correct and the batteries are just low for some reason.

A couple of questions

When you get a Low Battery warning have you looked at the Engine Page on your Aladdin and checked what the voltage is on the chassis batteries? If so what does it read?

Does this only happen only after it has not been driven for some time or has this happened while you have been driving and stopped for a short time?

The fact that you can start it right away with the "Boost" means that the techs are full of hot air and there is nothing wrong with the big motor or starter. If it starts oK if you are driving it often means that the alternator on the engine is charging the chassis batteries OK. If you only get a LOW BATTERY and slow cranking after it has been parked for some time means that the Inverter/Charger system is not charging your chassis batteries but is charging your coach batteries.

I will have to look up and see if you have a B.I.R.D system on that coach. I believe you do. The B.I.R.D system actually gives your chassis batteries priority and charges them fully before it will charge the coach batteries BUT having said that your All Electric coach has two inverter/charger units. I have some data on that and I will email it to you directly.

billsmax · 03-06-2011, 08:08 AM

Mike,
On the Alladin, it's usually 12.1 and will give Low Battery at that voltage. Right after driving, I'm usually about 12.7 but pretty quickly it's back to 12.1. Almost never see it go below 12.1 even if it sets for a couple of weeks. BUT, when on shore power, some times I check and it will be about 12.7 and then maybe an hour later back to 12.1.
Yes, I do have the Big Boy Solenoid and I had to replace it twice on 8000 mile trip this summer. Cummins did it first time and could find no reason for it to blow. Second time, I ordered warranty replacement from Monaco and they figured it was just probably a defective Big Boy the 2nd time??
By the way, I have 4 lifeline chassis batteries and the tech did check each one under load and all ok.
I quess I'll see what the Echo Charger does for me.

OLYLEN · 03-06-2011, 08:18 AM

Sounds like a battery problem. 12.1 is dead. Either there is one hell of a load on the batteries after shut down or a bad battery in the set.

LEN

Mike Canter · 03-06-2011, 08:22 AM

Hi Bill, the Big Boy relay is OK because that is the same relay that is used when you hit the Boost switch.

Here is the problem. The 12.1 volts is right around 55-60% charge. fully charged battery should be above 12.6 volts. The fact that it is changing so fast from 12.1 to 12.6 and back is a little confusing.

I am also a little confused on that you are saying you have four chassis batteries. I thought the standard configuration for an All Electric coach was 8 house/coach batteries and two chassis/motor batteries. Are you saying you have eight house batteries and four chassis batteries?

billsmax · 03-06-2011, 08:39 AM

Mike, That's a typo, you're correct there is 2 chassis batteries.
For the last hour, on shore power, alladin shows 12.5v

Mike Canter · 03-06-2011, 09:16 AM

So watch the Aladdin Engine battery readout and see if it continues to climb. Mine will read above 13.1 volts. The only true reading you can get on battery voltage is if you unplug from shorepower and no generator or engine running. Then the Aladdin will read actual battery voltage. Right now it appears that your charger is working OK through the B.I.R.D system and that is why you are seeing 12.5 volts but it needs to get above 13 volts.

Here is a potential problem. If the chassis battery voltage does NOT get above 13.1 volts then the B.I.R.D will not charge your house batteries. Read the BIRD manual I emailed you.

How long have you had this problem? Did you install the AGM batteries or did it come with them?

billsmax · 03-06-2011, 12:31 PM

Right now, connected to shore power, Chassis reading 13 and house reading 13.4 on Alladin. Looking really good right now. I didn't get a chance to talk to tech b4 he left yesterday to see if he did anything but will see him in the morning.

Mike Canter · 03-06-2011, 01:18 PM

Bill, seeing what you are getting for voltages right now I would say that you have no problems with your charging system or with the B.I.R.D. It appears that after the chassis batteries had over 13.1 volts on them your house batteries are charging. So all is normal. If you try and start your motor and the chassis batteries drop down to 12.1 volts and you get a Low Voltage warning then I would say that one or both of your chassis batteries are bad. Most probably holding what is called a "surface charge" and that is why they charge right back up.

We know all the battery cables to your starter are good because they work just fine when you use the Boost function.

The only other thing that I would recommend is to get a special battery brush and take all the battery cables off both of your chassis batteries and brush the inside of the cable terminals and the battery posts until they shine.

What you need is this kind of brush which you can get from Sears or any autoparts store. It has two brushes, one to do the inside of the cable terminal and one to go over and around the battery post.
Amazon.com: Lisle 11120 Battery Brush: Automotive

If that doesn't fix it then you need somebody else to test your batteries under load again.

cb5300 · 03-06-2011, 01:21 PM

Bill,
I have a 2008 Signature with 8 house batteries and 2 chassis batteries with the Cummins 600. Two years ago I had some what the same problem in that I had to sometime use my boost switch to crank the coach. Turns out that on the Cummins 600 there are two solenoids on the starter. Monaco or Cummins (depends on who you talked to) seemed to have left one off of my coach and after a while started to cause real problems by blowing fuses and not starting. Cummins replaced both the starter and both solenoids under warranty (with a little encouragement) and coach has started fine every since.....

Mike Canter · 03-06-2011, 01:45 PM

Charles, that is interesting and has possibilities. The question is why not have this extra solenoid would run Bill's chassis batteries down to 50-60% charge at 12.1 volts. Surely it would just not turn over. Do you have any idea what this second solenoid was used for and where it was located on your MH?

Bob (WA0MQE) · 03-07-2011, 05:31 AM

Bill, If I were you I'd still go through and check "ALL" the battery connections, and cables. Don't forget to check cable ends for a good crimp. Definitely check for a good contact and tight connection at the ground point on the frame for the chassis batteries. Just went through a situation on a friends Freightliner Truck in that sometimes it would start just fine. Other times it wouldn't. Put a charger on in it and it would start okay. Sit for awhile and no go. Ended up being a loose ground to the chassis frame. The bolt was rusted so bad I don't know how it ever made contact. Tried tightening the nut and it sheared right off because of the rust. Since it was a stud welded to the frame we had to drill a new hole, clean all the paint and rust off and use a new bolt.

Twomed · 03-07-2011, 09:13 AM

"But frequently" seems to suggest intermittent?? I had an incident like this early in this coach's life. Turned out when the battery tray was pushed back in a cable would hit the disconnect switch just slightly. Not enough to kill it (off), but enough to not make good contact. It finally caught my eye once, repositioned cables and no further incident. I'm sure with batt changes and people checking stuff your tray has been in/out a bunch. Eyeball those cables and set them for plenty of clearance.

Hope it's that cheap and simple...Good Luck.

Dutch Star David · 03-07-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billsmax

When I bought my 2008 Signature last Mar, the dealer installed 4 chassis Lifeline batteries. But frequently when I would go to crank my 600hp, I would have a dash display of "Low Battery" and it was very slow turning over. Tech told me that was the default display and was normal.
Now I've owned the coach for a year and about 5% of the time, I have to use boost to start.
I was assuming I had a bad battery or maybe these 4 batteries weren't actually replaced. So had tech check into problem again at dealer this month. Now 2 techs are telling me that this is normal with the 600hp engine and really no problem. They suggest putting an Echo Charger on.
If you have an all electric with 600hp Cummins, I would love to hear if you have this same situation or not.

Had similar problem with my 2008 Camelot. Turned out the alternator was faulty. Got same story from dealer-"low battery warning was normal"-that was until it died on I-35 and wouldn't start back up.