New Dynasty

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

.................
Before you pile on Monaco for choosing a FL chassis, I suggest you crawl all over (and under) one as I have, then drive the finished product. I, too, have a list of improvements and some criticisms of the new product, but they do not relate to the chassis, suspension, or steering.

Van W. 2000 Dynasty 36
Eastern NC

I am with Van on this. I found faults with the new Dynasty but they were almost all concerned with the house and floorplan. I actually think the direct drive on the fan is an improvement. We do not have a side radiator but I have read many instances of hydraulic hose failure and wax controller failure over the years.

We test drove the new Dynasty on Wednesday afternoon. Mike Snell would take two couples at a time and we went with our friends Rick Pasetto and his wife Marcella. Rick was first to drive and let me tell you drive he did. Mike Snell was near a heart attack and even mentioned Rick later that night when he addressed the MI audience. I thought Rick was going to turn the coach on its side. If there had been anything in the cabinets it would have been on the floor. The dishwasher door did fly open. Rick said he has had to make a few wild maneuvers in the past to avoid accidents or hitting a tire thread and wanted to see how the new chassis would perform. Perform it did. The chassis is very stable and drives like a Cadillac on Sunday afternoon.

The ride is impressive but what floored me was how quite the new Dynasty is. I could not hear the engine or transmission while driving down the road and if it had not been for the wind noise near the drivers window (a house problem) it would have even impressed a librarian. I also loved the 60 degree wheel cut when moving around parking lots. The engine brake was extremely strong. Rick decided to try a panic stop from about 50 mph and the coach stopped in half the distance he expected it to.

In my opinion this is not a $630K coach and I would put it in the $450K range. This is the first coach the new Monaco has put out and they will continue to make improvements. I don't think they made many mistakes on the chassis through and with the exception of the placement of a few items like the ping tanks, DEF fill, and fuel tank, I like the chassis. I will go on record as saying the Freightliner/Roadmaster chassis is a keeper. This is coming from a guy who said he would never buy a coach on a Freighliner chassis again. I eat crow!

Bob

[bgbranch]

I think this forum is all about a persons thoughts, experiences, and opinions. You know what they say about opinions. [moderator edit]

Van, I too have closely examined the bare chassis, and the finished coach. As I stated, I am pleased with the independent front suspension, but several things I am disappointed in which I also stated in my original post on the matter.

Another item which surprised me is that FL advertises the use of Huck fasteners on their chassis and indeed they do use them, but only on crossmembers and such, as the entire front suspension is attached with nuts and bolts.

I think the marriage between Monaco and Freightliner will turn out to be a good one, but their are some short comings that need to be addressed.

[Gary.Jones]

My observations of the 2015 Dynasty.

I spent a good deal of time looking at the Freightliner chassis and then attended the Freightliner forum at Albany, finally I watched them put the bare chassis up on a truck to take it up to Perry. In addition, I rode (and tried to drive the coach two times, so I have observations that I think are relevant.

1.) I think that the Freightliner chassis is as good or better than my Roadmaster chassis. It has far fewer airbags, but the ride going down the road was as smooth and stable as the ride of my 8 bag Dynasty. The ride was stable and smooth. It was also quiet. The big 600 horse Cummins "hummed" far more than it "clacked". When I watched them put it up on the low boy for taking to Perry, I did not know the Cummins was running until I got very close to the chasses. Its not surprising that you virtually cannot hear the diesel running when you are driving since it is quiet standing beside it.

2.) There are some strange placements of things as others have noted.

3.) In my opinion, something important has happened that no one has talked about. Mike Snell mentioned that he has spent the past 5 months living virtually full-time in the first coach, and he says he is modestly embarrased at some of the really dumb things that they have done to the inside of the coach. He is aware of them, because he has had to deal with them himself. As we all know, the guys that have designed these coaches by and large historically, have not lived in them, and have no clue what owners put up with day to day in design flaws. I believe that no one should be allowed to design coaches who was not forced to live in one for 6 months before sitting in on the design team discussions. Now, I have not talked to Mike about every one of these, but he mentioned that he has a list of stuff that makes no sense.

4.) I had breakfast with Mike Snell and he indicated to me that they hope to build about 40 of these coaches, but that the two that they have here in Albany are clearly "beta models" and are being used to find the weaknesses of the design and serve as a foundation to the future coaches that will be built.

5.) My most substantive comments are that I am amazed at how unfriendly these coaches are for anyone who has to get around in them with the slides in. With the slides out, these are pretty much palaces, visually, and operationally . However, with the slides in, these things are a mess !!! The interior designer of the coaches was here. What she designed was pretty, but it is clear to me that she has never lived or traveled in one very far. Trying to walk from the cockpit to the half bathroom is like trying to walk through a used furniture or antique store, where furniture is placed so close together that you can't do anything without worrying about knocking something over or brusing your body on sharp edges. Immediately behind the pilot chairs is a large TV and TV stand with a desk built into the aft end. Across from that is a J leather sofa. Between them, in the only walk space there is, is a movable hard wood ottoman which leaves virtually no place to walk . The desk has a lush executive chair which will not go fully under the desk, and has a back that sticks so far out into the passageway that you again, virtually cannot walk thru. This chair is a joke, and needs to "deep-sixed" quickly. It takes up too much space and is not right for this set up. Then, there is the circular dining table. This table supposedly was wanted by the people answering the initial design survey. Well, be careful for what you wish for as this table again snugs up very closely to the kitchen and again makes yet another road block to easy passage . Then there is the refer half-bath log jam. When I asked the Monaco guys about the lack of space, one explained, "Well, you could use a bungie type cord to keep the desk chair in tight to the desk, and you could tilt the dining room chairs up (like you do to reserve seats at a dinner) and that would give more space". What?? On a half milliion coach we are going to bungie cord up the chairs so we can walk to the bathroom. . This interior design was obviously done by someone who liked what it looked like all slides out, but never gave much consideration to what it is like to do something simple like go to the bathroom at a rest stop before going on your way, or spending a night at Wal-Mart with slides in and bookdocking. Again, just someone who has obviously not spent much time living in one.

I also am not sure how much the half bath contributes. I dont know about you, but when we socialize with friends it is usually sitting outside under the awning, not entertaining 8 guests who need to use the toilet. Dedicating this much space to a half bath is currently a popular thing to do on a high end coach, but makes little sense to me. However, since you cannot virtually use the back master bathroom unless the slides are out, or you do a forward roll across the bed, the back bathroom is virtually useless, and so I guess that is the main purpose of having the half bath. Once again, something that is done because of the lack of living space in the coach.

So, my issues are primarily issue with internal living space. What I can tell you clearly is that if my wife and I were in the market for a coach in this price range, we would not be interested in the version of the Dynasty that they are showing here. However, with some redesign and smart interior modifications, this coach could be much more living friendly.

One final observation. Monaco is obviously trying to show this coach to as many people as possible, but the people organizing the test drives are terrible at what they do. The "drill" is supposed to be two drivers (and their spouses, if you want) every 30 minutes. I was talking to the schedulers and asked if my DW and I could ride along with another group and were told OK. We did that. Then I decided I would like to drive. I had two firm appointments to drive the coach. The first time, I waited for 45 minutes after my designated appointments time, only to be told that the group that was going out next was the group scheduled an hour before my scheduled time but if I wanted to go out with them, I could. I told them it was late and I didn't want to drive with 7 or 8 people in the coach so I could not ask questions while driving and pay attention to the coach while driving. I told them I would reschedule for another day, and she offered me a firm time the next day at 10:00. Again, the next morning, I was there at 10:00 and waited for 20 to 30 minutes for the 9:30 group to return to the fairgounds. While, there, two couples who were supposed to do the 9:00 drive showed up fully intending to drive (now 4 drivers and 4 spouses, plus two salesmen), now 10:45 and the young lady who was the scheduler says to me "I guess that the group just got larger". What a complete mess!! I told her I was tired of waiting and the complete disorganization of the whole thing, and walked off. I sure hope that Monaco finds some people that understand living up to customer commitments. If I had $600,000 in my pocket today and was seriously considering purchase, I would have been really turned off by the whole thing. Apparently, wasting my time and simply not living up to what they offered was not an important issue. I was not a happy camper.

So, there you have it. I wish them well. They have some serious re-designing to do before they start the production coaches. I think the Freightlines chasses will eventually be seen as "as-good" or better than the Roadmaster, and all in all, if they learn customer service means living up to simple things like commitments, then I think they will do very well, and I wish them all good luck. By the way, every one of my friends who actually were fortunate enough to get to drive the coach told me the same thing: Essentially "it was a nice coach and drove well, but if they had the money, they would not be buying one of those coaches due to the layout". They were not interested in the coach for any chassis or mechanical issue, but rather because of it being "not living friendly".

Gary

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by nodine

I am with Van on this. I found faults with the new Dynasty but they were almost all concerned with the house and floorplan. I actually think the direct drive on the fan is an improvement. We do not have a side radiator but I have read many instances of hydraulic hose failure and wax controller failure over the years.

We test drove the new Dynasty on Wednesday afternoon. Mike Snell would take two couples at a time and we went with our friends Rick Pasetto and his wife Marcella. Rick was first to drive and let me tell you drive he did. Mike Snell was near a heart attack and even mentioned Rick later that night when he addressed the MI audience. I thought Rick was going to turn the coach on its side. If there had been anything in the cabinets it would have been on the floor. The dishwasher door did fly open. Rick said he has had to make a few wild maneuvers in the past to avoid accidents or hitting a tire thread and wanted to see how the new chassis would perform. Perform it did. The chassis is very stable and drives like a Cadillac on Sunday afternoon.

The ride is impressive but what floored me was how quite the new Dynasty is. I could not hear the engine or transmission while driving down the road and if it had not been for the wind noise near the drivers window (a house problem) it would have even impressed a librarian. I also loved the 60 degree wheel cut when moving around parking lots. The engine brake was extremely strong. Rick decided to try a panic stop from about 50 mph and the coach stopped in half the distance he expected it to.

In my opinion this is not a $630K coach and I would put it in the $450K range. This is the first coach the new Monaco has put out and they will continue to make improvements. I don't think they made many mistakes on the chassis through and with the exception of the placement of a few items like the ping tanks, DEF fill, and fuel tank, I like the chassis. I will go on record as saying the Freightliner/Roadmaster chassis is a keeper. This is coming from a guy who said he would never buy a coach on a Freighliner chassis again. I eat crow!

Bob

I haven't finished reading all the posts on this thread but I guess I should comment here, being the guy that is mentioned above .

I didn't even get near the "worst-case" situations which could happen with a coach. (By the way Marcella tells me she thinks the dishwasher door lock was faulty.)

Last week, when driving my Dynasty, I needed to make a quick swerve to avoid some 'gators' on the road. I had an earlier experience, 3+ yrs ago, which I had mentioned to Bob and Mike, where, at highway (55+) speeds in the center lane I saw an 18-wheeler hit the rear of a car in the left lane forcing me to do a quick swerve to right lane to avoid the car going sideways in lanes 2 and 3 ... my Dynasty had responded admirably. So I saw the need to see if this "Roadmaster 'B' (bridge chassis)" based Dynasty would perform equally.

My first step in the test drive was to test coach lean during turns and in the parking lot I did a quick circle... don't think the coach came near flipping over That convinced me not to even attempt a 55mph swerve. I did one swerve somewhere in the 40's when on the road (but did not attempt one at 55) ... had we been driving a Sig I don't think Mike would have been half as frightened.

Braking of the new Dynasty was exceptional with the Jake in high mode, more so than my recollection of test driving a Sig (with a 600ISX) a few yrs back. Expectedly, power and acceleration were comparable. Of course the Sig (and every other S10 based coach I've test driven) had less lean, stiffer ride.

It's all a matter of what you like; I do not think any coach will drive precisely like a BMW, Mercedes or a Cadillac however I think it's fair to say that the S10 drives more "BMW-like" and the Freightliner, more like a big Cad sedan. It's all a matter of what you like. I'd compare this 2015 Dynasty about the same on the road as the Entegra I drove about a yr ago.

Monaco's Roadmaster B "advanced bridge design" chassis (http://www.monacocoach.com/dynasty/2015_dyn_b.pdf) is essentially the same as the American Coach Liberty Chassis (Liberty Chassis)
... with it's Huck Bolted I-Beam construction, custom tuned Sachs shocks and so on. The Liberty Chassis comes in Cummins-ISL, Detroit-DD13 and Cummins ISX flavors for the American Tradition, Eagle and Heritage coach models respectively. The chassis specs are quite the same and one can check the above link to compare for themselves.

Engine noise was almost unnoticeable. There was some wind noise heard when driving this coach.

As to floorplans, Monaco's one available Dynasty floorplan is quite different than any of the American coach plans... it's all a matter of what one likes.

Regarding interior cabinets and construction, Monaco owners should carefully compare theirs with the new Dynasty ... there are lots of differences.... check the wood used, fittings, the way the cabinets, drawers and shelves are put together.

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by Jeff753

The tag does not lift due to the new frame

I din't think it's the frame per-se which prevents the tag from being liftable. It could be that the designers just decided that dumping the tag airbags was acceptable, and less costly.

[dfunde01]

Originally Posted by rpasetto

Monaco's Roadmaster B "advanced bridge design" chassis (http://www.monacocoach.com/dynasty/2015_dyn_b.pdf) is essentially the same as the American Coach Liberty Chassis (Liberty Chassis)
... with it's Huck Bolted I-Beam construction, custom tuned Sachs shocks and so on. The Liberty Chassis comes in Cummins-ISL, Detroit-DD13 and Cummins ISX flavors for the American Tradition, Eagle and Heritage coach models respectively. The chassis specs are quite the same and one can check the above link to compare for themselves..

The Freightliner/Liberty chassis is a hybrid using Freightliner front and rear clips connected by the American Liberty bridge. A much stiffer chassis than a pure Freightliner. The American Tradition is based on the Freightliner XCM series clips and the Eagle, Heritage, and Dynasty are built on Freightliner SL-M clips. On the 2014 Freightliner Liberty Eagle with the DD13 only the front air bags respond when you press the raise four corners button on the leveler controls. The height of the rear skid pads on the hitch receiver stays at a 15" clearance which is normal ride height. I don't know if the Tradition, Heritage, and Dynasty on Freightliner Liberty chassis have the same limitation.

Dave

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by dfunde01

The Freightliner/Liberty chassis is a hybrid using Freightliner front and rear clips connected by the American Liberty bridge. A much stiffer chassis than a pure Freightliner. The American Tradition is based on the Freightliner XCM series clips and the Eagle, Heritage, and Dynasty are built on Freightliner SL-M clips. On the 2014 Freightliner Liberty Eagle with the DD13 only the front air bags respond when you press the raise four corners button on the leveler controls. The height of the rear skid pads on the hitch receiver stays at a 15" clearance which is normal ride height. I don't know if the Tradition, Heritage, and Dynasty on Freightliner Liberty chassis have the same limitation.

Dave

That's a surprise; I'd have expected all-4 to raise when pressing the all-4 button. I didn't get the chance to do a thorough test drive and check things like that with the Dyn... hopefully someone who test drives it in the future will do so.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by rpasetto

I haven't finished reading all the posts on this thread but I guess I should comment here, being the guy that is mentioned above .

I didn't even get near the "worst-case" situations which could happen with a coach. (By the way Marcella tells me she thinks the dishwasher door lock was faulty.)

Last week, when driving my Dynasty, I needed to make a quick swerve to avoid some 'gators' on the road. I had an earlier experience, 3+ yrs ago, which I had mentioned to Bob and Mike, where, at highway (55+) speeds in the center lane I saw an 18-wheeler hit the rear of a car in the left lane forcing me to do a quick swerve to right lane to avoid the car going sideways in lanes 2 and 3 ... my Dynasty had responded admirably. So I saw the need to see if this "Roadmaster 'B' (bridge chassis)" based Dynasty would perform equally.

My first step in the test drive was to test coach lean during turns and in the parking lot I did a quick circle... don't think the coach came near flipping over That convinced me not to even attempt a 55mph swerve. I did one swerve somewhere in the 40's when on the road (but did not attempt one at 55) ... had we been driving a Sig I don't think Mike would have been half as frightened.
....................
.

Rick has far more experience with motorhomes than I do so I stand corrected. Guess his maneuvers were not as drastic as they seemed.

Bob

[William Willard]

Bob -- Next time I`m in Knoxville, can I drive your new Dynasty ? William Willard

[moisheh]

rpasseto: Our 08 Dynasty does not have anything that lifts the tag. It simply dumps the air in those bags. That is a common method on many coaches with tag axles. I am not aware of any midpriced MH's that actually lift the tag. maybe in a Prevost?

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by moisheh

rpasseto: Our 08 Dynasty does not have anything that lifts the tag. It simply dumps the air in those bags. That is a common method on many coaches with tag axles. I am not aware of any midpriced MH's that actually lift the tag. maybe in a Prevost?

According to the brochure your tag lifts. They are adjustable over a small range of lift. Maybe yours just needs an adjustment.

http://www.monacocoach.com/StaticFil.../08Dynasty.pdf

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by moisheh

rpasseto: Our 08 Dynasty does not have anything that lifts the tag. It simply dumps the air in those bags. That is a common method on many coaches with tag axles. I am not aware of any midpriced MH's that actually lift the tag. maybe in a Prevost?

Look for the lift chamber (looks like an air brake chamber) behind the tag axle wheel of your coach. The chain or cable which lifts tag axle is adjustable.

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by nodine

Rick has far more experience with motorhomes than I do so I stand corrected. Guess his maneuvers were not as drastic as they seemed.

Bob

I tried the same quick maneuver today on way to FMCA (on the 300 - no other vehicles around). A quick left - right swerve ... much less lean in my S10 chassis Dynasty. Of course it was fully loaded and pulling a toad so that may have something to do with the difference too.

[fear not... I haven't flipped a vehicle yet ... ]

[William Willard]

Originally Posted by moisheh

rpasseto: Our 08 Dynasty does not have anything that lifts the tag. It simply dumps the air in those bags. That is a common method on many coaches with tag axles. I am not aware of any midpriced MH's that actually lift the tag. maybe in a Prevost?

The tag on our 07 Camelot lifts -- William Willard