New Signature

[MTK46]

My 02 Signature had a $474k MSRP. ISM 500 hp, aquat hot, triple slide, 12.5k Onan

[dverstra]

I saw the new Signature at the Tampa RV Show. I'll stick with my 2007 Navigator!!
Build quality wasn't there.

[Windecker]

Originally Posted by Chargerman

There lies the issue in my opinion. REV has a business plan to hit the lowest possible price point to sell as many units as possible instead of building higher quality, better fit and finish and higher end outfitted Coaches to compete with the high end of the competitions line which is the King Air and Cornerstone. The Monaco name will not increase market share unless the philosophy that the original owners had is embraced and built upon. It’s too bad that it likely will never happen, at least as long as REV has it.

Well I don't want to defend REV much but there are things in play that we are not informed of.
Although I agree with your (everyones) points, the economy has literally just turned around and hopefully the new high end coach market will rebound with it.

Things take time, especially for a saturated market. By saturated market I don't mean high end coaches, I mean RV options.

It took many years for Monaco to climb the ladder to the quality, innovative coach lineup.

With my fingers crossed, maybe we can see this again. There ARE people with money out there buying expensive things. It takes time.

Or, Monaco will just go away because I sure don't see them surviving as is eith an uninterested REV owner.

Windecker.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by Chargerman

There lies the issue in my opinion. REV has a business plan to hit the lowest possible price point to sell as many units as possible instead of building higher quality, better fit and finish and higher end outfitted Coaches to compete with the high end of the competitions line which is the King Air and Cornerstone. The Monaco name will not increase market share unless the philosophy that the original owners had is embraced and built upon. It’s too bad that it likely will never happen, at least as long as REV has it.

Originally Posted by Windecker

Well I don't want to defend REV much but there are things in play that we are not informed of.
Although I agree with your (everyones) points, the economy has literally just turned around and hopefully the new high end coach market will rebound with it.

Things take time, especially for a saturated market. By saturated market I don't mean high end coaches, I mean RV options.

It took many years for Monaco to climb the ladder to the quality, innovative coach lineup.

With my fingers crossed, maybe we can see this again. There ARE people with money out there buying expensive things. It takes time.

Or, Monaco will just go away because I sure don't see them surviving as is eith an uninterested REV owner.

Windecker.

Here's the scoop as told by the REV Marketing Manager who was at the Monaco International FMCA "Pre-Rally" this past July...

REV is discontinuing the Diplomat/Scepter coach and building what they called "three high end coaches" under the Monaco Signature name. These will be the "Marquis" (which we see on the web site. It is intended to be an "entry level high end coach". Then this year (2018) they will begin production of the "Signature", and then lastly the "Signature Executive", which is intended to be the most upscale of the three.

That said, I agree with others who have expressed concern about REV build quality. IMO, these coaches will not sell UNLESS REV makes some HUGE improvements in quality of their product line. They say they are trying, but from what I've seen, and from what I've experienced during my time spent a the Decatur shop and factories, I'm not entirely sure if they are capable of resolving the problem anytime soon.

But it's more than just tackling the quality control issue. IMO, Chargerman hit the problem squarely on the head in the above quote, when he said... " REV has a business plan to hit the lowest possible price point to sell as many units as possible instead of building higher quality, better fit and finish and higher end outfitted Coaches to compete with the high end of the competitions line which is the King Air and Cornerstone." If REV has any chance of succeeding in the high end market, they need to alter their business philosophy. However, my guess is that REV's new Signature line will be short lived, as was their Diplomat/Scepter.

And owning a new REV coach, it pains me to say this.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by readog

It is not even a roadmaster chassis

That's a GOOD thing. Having owned both a 2007 Diplomat and a 2017 Diplomat, I can attest to the fact that the Freightliner XCM chassis of today is far and above the Roadmaster R8RR chassis of 10 years ago in numerous ways. The chassis is the BEST part of my new Diplomat. The house - not so much; although it's still a very nice technologically advanced coach for the price REV sold them.

Note that I'm making this comparison based on the Roadmaster R8RR. I have no experience with the chassis that was under the original Monaco Signatures.

[theBeav]

So, what year would you say that they've gone down hill. I'm in the market for a Dynasty, or Executive. 2007 - 2010 maybe.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by Georgesmith

So, what year would you say that they've gone down hill. I'm in the market for a Dynasty, or Executive. 2007 - 2010 maybe.

Well, the bankruptcy occurred in March 2009. Most 2009 coaches would have been completed by then. So if you're looking for a legacy Monaco, it would be a 2009 or before.

[Windecker]

Awesome we have someone who has one join in to help the conversation.

I may have drank he cool aid but on my tour, I though I liked the "bridge" idea. Sort of a cheaper, lighter, easier and maybe better way than the Roadmaster. They improved in areas needed, lowered the engine a tiny bit, increased steering angles slightly and so on. I don't like the fact that the DEF tank and Diesel tanks are 30 feet apart, seems silly to me. And (can't escape this any longer) The 4 foot long emissions exhaust tube scares the heck out of me.

We only got to walk past an Executive, were not allowed in so can't speak for the house part. There were no high end coaches on the line other than the one Executive so no actual frame of reference personally (which speaks volumes as far as what demand is today).

We did step into a finished DP outside in the final prep area, can't remember what model though. Maybe Pace Arrow, Maybe Bounder, I just can't recall. Either way, all same frame. I did notice that the body rolled a LOT more than I am used to when stepping in. Jacks were not down.

I felt they did a great job of trying to convince us that the new Chassis is improved over older units. I felt the steering and axle support structure looked good from a design point of view. Roadmaster was a very expensive heavy frame. BUT they were ahead of their time with regards to stiffing body flex. I would miss the extra airbags and stiff suspension but understand the compromise.

I thought the inside was decent not great but was not high end coach. I also noticed the "smell". Almost overpowering formaldehyde stench typical of the travel trailers I used to look at 30 years ago when we first started RV-ing. This was fresh manufacture so perhaps that is normal.

They started the engine and I thought it ran smooth and quiet. I liked the feel of the engine. I believe it was a 450 ISL We did not drive the coach.

I felt cramped a bit in the drivers seat, not enough leg room and the windshield is noticeably shorter or positioned in a manor that has less view somehow. I am not sure if this is in all REV products or not. The guide did mention they use the same windshield "design" in all products. It could have just been placement of cabinets and trim also?

I don't personally know anything at all about the Diplomat so have to rely on folks who have owned and do own one to comment such as Robbin M.

Curious what part of the R8RR chassis you had issues with and how the new VRide frame has solved that?
Also curious about the new electric motor slide outs and how they work as compared to the hydraulic units Monaco used in your 2007?

I love my hydraulic slides, but again, will cost more to produce and weigh more.
Sorry folks, I make long posts
Windecker

Originally Posted by Robin_M

That's a GOOD thing. Having owned both a 2007 Diplomat and a 2017 Diplomat, I can attest to the fact that the Freightliner XCM chassis of today is far and above the Roadmaster R8RR chassis of 10 years ago in numerous ways. The chassis is the BEST part of my new Diplomat. The house - not so much; although it's still a very nice technologically advanced coach for the price REV sold them.

Note that I'm making this comparison based on the Roadmaster R8RR. I have no experience with the chassis that was under the original Monaco Signatures.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by Windecker

...I felt cramped a bit in the drivers seat, not enough leg room and the windshield is noticeably shorter or positioned in a manor that has less view somehow. I am not sure if this is in all REV products or not. The guide did mention they use the same windshield "design" in all products. It could have just been placement of cabinets and trim also?

I don't personally know anything at all about the Diplomat so have to rely on folks who have owned and do own one to comment such as Robbin M.

Curious what part of the R8RR chassis you had issues with and how the new VRide frame has solved that?
Also curious about the new electric motor slide outs and how they work as compared to the hydraulic units Monaco used in your 2007?

I love my hydraulic slides, but again, will cost more to produce and weigh more.
Sorry folks, I make long posts
Windecker

Well, the REV Diplomat has a huge windshield with lots of viability. As for leg room, it has plenty of that too. This is the first coach I've owned where I don't have to put the driver's seat all the way back. The slide configuration is the same as my 2007 Diplomat - one full wall hydraulic slide on the road side, and two electric one's on the curb side. All work very well, although the galley slide did need a small adjustment when I first got it.

The FCC XCM chassis is a dream to drive with 4 huge air bags replacing the 8 small ones on the last coach, making for a significantly softer ride than the R8RR. This is true even with the front tires filled close to the max air pressure (which is necessary due to the weight distribution on this coach.) The Independent Front Suspension, and the V-ride configuration in the rear (and likely the addition of the tag axle) all work to make the ride much more stable than my older Diplomat - absolutely no sway - even when changing lanes, or being passed by an 18-wheeler. This rig drives like a Cadillac while my older Monaco was more like a truck, even though I had added a steering stabilizer and Koni shocks. The Bendix disk brakes up front make a huge improvement as well. I also enjoy the additional maneuverability offered by the Ultra-Steer tag axle. I'm definately gonna miss that if I sell this coach.

If your're interested, there's much more information about the chassis improvements on the first page of my web site (see link in my signature below). If you read that, keep in mind that I wouldn't be linking to FCCC sales hype if I hadn't experienced the benefits of those features first hand. I'm not knocking the older Roadmaster chassis, but the new Frightliners have 10 years newer technology, and the differences are indeed dramatic.

[theBeav]

Thanks for the input. My wife and I are seeing quite a few 2007-2009s that we may be interested in.

[dverstra]

You should also consider the Holiday Rambler Navigator and Imperial models. Virtually the same coach built in the same plant (Coburg, OR). Beaver Marquis and Patriot also were built there.

[theBeav]

Not sure I like the idea of the money pit though

[dverstra]

Originally Posted by Georgesmith

Not sure I like the idea of the money pit though

As with any "Big Boy Toy" (RV, Boat, Cottage), they are magnificent holes to throw your money in. imho

[rpasetto]

Looked at the online 'brochures' for the new 2018 Marquis and Signature. They appear to be similarly equipped with and use the same chassis, ISL9-450 engine and other components as are used in the American Revolution and Dream line. For whatever meaningless reason the chassis is not called the "Liberty" chassis but the chassis name on the Sig brochure is something else (I forget). Even the front caps of the Sig and Marq seem almost the same as the Am coach line... (but it's only a sketch).

Seems as if REV is building a whole line of very similarly built & equipped coaches with a variety of floorplans but use differing names... maybe to capitalize on name recognition. Good luck to them.

I cannot help thinking of the days when there were Plymouths, Dodges, and DeSotos which were virtually identical except for trim & nameplates. ... likewise for Chevrolets, Pontiacs...