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Old 07-18-2021, 06:31 PM   #1
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No Low Beams (yes, another one! sigh....)

OK... I've searched and searched, read and read, tested and tested, tried everything suggested and everything I could think of... I'm at a dead end. Help would be greatly appreciated!

2006 Holiday Rambler Neptune XL (second owner)
325HP Cummins ISB (enough to do what it needs to do)

NO VIP MODULE... NO SMART WHEEL.

I've downloaded every schematic I could get my hands on and am still stymied.

I have no voltage at the low beam lamps. I have voltage to the "turn signal hi/low beam switch" which seems to be the last step prior to disappearing into into the front road side compartment.

One gentleman had a free flying relay with one wire identified as "low beam". That relay in my coach says "high beam" and goes +12V when the high beams are selected on the steering column selector switch.

The board mounted relay for running lights clicks when the light switch is pulled halfway. There is NO CLICK of a relay when the low beams are selected at the column and the dash light switch is pulled all the way to (supposedly) activate the low beams.

So... no low beam relay or shot low beam relay.

I have identified all the relays in the front compartment and none of them are labeled "low beam".

I have checked every fuse that might be even remotely connected to headlights.

I have an empty DRL socket. If I plug a relay into it I get low beams. No... I won't release the parking brake with the relay inserted. Thanks to all those who offered up that warning. I have looke at the diagrams and they are correct.. you will blow a fuse.

Can anybody tell me where in that front compartment I can find the wire coming off the hi/low beam selector switch or if there IS a relay somewhere for the low beams? I'm lost.

I'm including some pix of what I got since so many seem to be so different.

Thanks in advance for any assistance you may be able to offer.
Craig
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:46 PM   #2
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Sounds like you need a signal tracer tool.

I have a 2008 Endeavor but with the smart wheel so giving you the schematic might not help.

It seems you are working backwards from the lights which is a great way to chase wires with a signal tracer.

I would remove the low beam bulbs and connect the signal injector to the wire that would be the hot side of the low beam bulb.

Then with the sniffer you can begin to follow the wire paths.
------------------------------------------------

I don't know your skill level but physically checking fuses can really trip you up. You need to use a simple test light on each end of the fuses versus just pulling and inspecting them.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Looking at your circuit board it is close to my 08. It is always possible a circuit board trace has failed but without the exact schematic it make things really tough as you are finding.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:50 PM   #3
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This was from a recent chase through the complex wiring of a later model rv but may give you some insight.
----------------------------------------------------------------
There are three white wires labeled 68, 69, and 70 that run up the steering column along with the turn signal wires.
When you remove the steering column shrouds, look for those wires. They come from under the dash and go up the column, with a butt connector or with take apart connectors , close to the dash. Those fail.

#68 wire comes from headlight switch (maybe through the VIP box) and run up to the hi/lo beam switch. 69 is low beam and 70 is high beam.
The switch does occasionally fail and can be replaced without replacing the whole turn signal switch, as it is a separate switch. It can be changed out without removing the steering wheel. More than likely it is just the connectors.

Douglass AutoTech switch #1900008 From MPparts.com
It was $93 back in November 2019.
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Old 07-18-2021, 06:54 PM   #4
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Look at this schematic. Rotate if needed. Look for the low beam relay which you may have on your circuit board.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 12 Volt diagram.pdf (163.8 KB, 21 views)
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Old 07-18-2021, 08:12 PM   #5
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It may have covered already. The DLR relay has same plug layout but regular relay won't work . I can't say if that is your issue, if low beams work without it but have read several times DRL is special made.
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Old 07-19-2021, 06:01 PM   #6
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Look for fuses in that Monaco 3 box. On my 04 Windsor, while troubleshooting my own head light issues, found NONE of the headlight fuses relays etc on that large board had any wiring outputs that ran the headlights.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:29 AM   #7
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Thanks for all the suggestions... but still lost.

YC1:
1. Signal Tracer is maybe the best idea so far... I've never used one so I'll have to educate myself on that. (OW! Painful... )

2. Fuses- I check them with a multimeter.

3. I get 12V out from the "turn signal/hi-low beam" switch on lows. About 10V+ when on highs (alternator not running). This appears to be the last step prior to exiting the cab on the way to a relay (if present) or to the low beams.

4. I appreciate the schematic but it's not my system. Also, I've searched the entire front compartment for a low beam relay... no joy.

Thanks for the suggestions and I will start researching the signal tracer!
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:30 AM   #8
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153Stars: Thanks. I've heard that and verified it on the schematics. Plugging a relay into that socket and then releasing the parking brake seems to be a really bad idea.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadell View Post
Look for fuses in that Monaco 3 box. On my 04 Windsor, while troubleshooting my own head light issues, found NONE of the headlight fuses relays etc on that large board had any wiring outputs that ran the headlights.
Is the "Monaco 3 box" the front roadside box? If so, I've spent a couple of hours combing through that box to no avail. I CAN find and identify the high beam relay but nothing related to low beams.
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Old 07-20-2021, 11:46 AM   #10
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Schematic for My Coach

Here's the schematic that seems to match what I have and is labeled as such by Monaco.

NOTE! Down in the bottom right it says the relays were added in the '06 model year when the sm211 VIP module was implemented. I'm guessing I don't have those relays because my coach doesn't have the VIP module and it's an early '06.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Neptune Headlight schematic-2.pdf (53.8 KB, 12 views)
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:25 PM   #11
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This file may be useful for other things but may not answer your question unfortunately.

Have you changed the headlight relay at all. I did not re-read the whole thread.

It could be that the relay when not activated by a high beam control voltage is in a normally closed set of contacts and thus simply passes voltage to the low beam circuit. A Bosh 30 amp relay could easily fail with that much load over time.

You probably have several similar relays that can be plucked out to put into the headlight relay socket.

I went through several schematics and with the implementation of the VIP wheel in later units they likely had to make so minor changes.

Wish I had the exact schematic.

If you don't have a relay to swap (around $10 or less at any automotive store), you could put your own 12 volts onto the low beams and then pull the headlight relay and use your meter to see if that voltage shows up there. Verify by removing the voltage of course.

You are basically using a "signal tracer" by putting your own voltage into the low beams.

If you want to add a bit of a safety measure, use a 12 volt test light inline with a 12 volt source to apply the voltage to the low beams. The lights will be dim of course as will the test light and you would not measure 12 volts at the relay socket either. The test light bulb will protect you from putting 12 volts onto a ground wire and letting any smoke out.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2006 Endeavor Wiring and block diagrams 48 pages.pdf (2.14 MB, 8 views)
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Old 07-21-2021, 09:33 PM   #12
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CraigTee,

Looking at the schematic you posted. Seeing the fog light relay is activated with the headlight switch. you could see if the fog lights come on with the headlight switch... IF they do, the headlight low beam switch is sending power. IF they don't. I would check where the smart wheel controller would connect. Mine is behind where the radio is in the dash.

wait, Going back to the Original post, and IF the schematic you supplied is correct, would point straight to the HI/LOW beam switch. The system on my O4 is nothing like that schematic. BUT sense you said the headlights came on in low beam with the relay in the DRL socket, the headlight power supply is good, the low beam relay is good. would be an issue at the dimmer switch... On mine, the DRL socket powers the headlights directly, with lower voltage, and the Smart Wheel controller does its thing independent of the DRL and headlight switch (if I turned on the wipers)

So, without using the tracer, I would have a helper work on flashing the high beams and locate the clicking relay, and would guess the low beam relay would be very close. Mostly to verify you have relays that switch to operate the high beams. Still, points me back to the switch. I would make sure that the high beam runs off a relay. If you find high beam relay and low beam relay, then would get to the dimmer switch.
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Old 07-25-2021, 11:20 AM   #13
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Thanks for the schematic and thoughts.
I cannot locate a low beam relay. No relay on the board refers to headlights. There is a free floating relay socket that clicks upon activation of hi beams and has a ground and two wires labeled as turn signal lamps (if I remember correctly) Hi beams work fine.

I seem to be losing the power to the low beams somewhere between the hi/lo switch and the lamps. Again, cannot locate a low beam relay by designation nor sound of activation.

Still stuck. :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
This file may be useful for other things but may not answer your question unfortunately.

Have you changed the headlight relay at all. I did not re-read the whole thread.

It could be that the relay when not activated by a high beam control voltage is in a normally closed set of contacts and thus simply passes voltage to the low beam circuit. A Bosh 30 amp relay could easily fail with that much load over time.

You probably have several similar relays that can be plucked out to put into the headlight relay socket.

I went through several schematics and with the implementation of the VIP wheel in later units they likely had to make so minor changes.

Wish I had the exact schematic.

If you don't have a relay to swap (around $10 or less at any automotive store), you could put your own 12 volts onto the low beams and then pull the headlight relay and use your meter to see if that voltage shows up there. Verify by removing the voltage of course.

You are basically using a "signal tracer" by putting your own voltage into the low beams.

If you want to add a bit of a safety measure, use a 12 volt test light inline with a 12 volt source to apply the voltage to the low beams. The lights will be dim of course as will the test light and you would not measure 12 volts at the relay socket either. The test light bulb will protect you from putting 12 volts onto a ground wire and letting any smoke out.
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Old 07-25-2021, 11:28 AM   #14
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Lots of great thoughts here!
1. hi/low switch tests good.
2. I've checked for clicking relays, no joy on lo beams.
(also no designation on circuit boards)
3. Thanks for the location of the smart wheel controller. Definitely worth a look!

Your note gave me one more idea. Plug in a standard relay into the DRL socket (WITHOUT RELEASING THE PARKING BRAKE!) and listen for a low beam relay. If no click, then no relay (if my schematic is correct). The schematic states the relays were added in 2006 with the VIP module. I don't have that... so I might not have a low beam relay. If not... then I just need to find the break in the low beam power.

Thanks again.
Craig

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wadell View Post
CraigTee,

Looking at the schematic you posted. Seeing the fog light relay is activated with the headlight switch. you could see if the fog lights come on with the headlight switch... IF they do, the headlight low beam switch is sending power. IF they don't. I would check where the smart wheel controller would connect. Mine is behind where the radio is in the dash.

wait, Going back to the Original post, and IF the schematic you supplied is correct, would point straight to the HI/LOW beam switch. The system on my O4 is nothing like that schematic. BUT sense you said the headlights came on in low beam with the relay in the DRL socket, the headlight power supply is good, the low beam relay is good. would be an issue at the dimmer switch... On mine, the DRL socket powers the headlights directly, with lower voltage, and the Smart Wheel controller does its thing independent of the DRL and headlight switch (if I turned on the wipers)

So, without using the tracer, I would have a helper work on flashing the high beams and locate the clicking relay, and would guess the low beam relay would be very close. Mostly to verify you have relays that switch to operate the high beams. Still, points me back to the switch. I would make sure that the high beam runs off a relay. If you find high beam relay and low beam relay, then would get to the dimmer switch.
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