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Old 11-30-2022, 01:46 PM   #1
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Angry No-Run- CAPS Pump Replaced- Still No Run

Hello all,

So I am on the verge of throwing up...We have a 2001 Holiday Rambler Endeavor wit the Cummins ISC330 diesel engine.

In 2018 I had the Lift Pump replaced since it failed. Then in 2020 the CAPS pump failed and we had that replaced ($10,000 since it required multiple towing, and some other issues related to getting the proper parts), now this past July after starting the coach for a planned 1-day trip, the engine shut off abruptly after about 90 seconds of running. I could not get it to restart.

Our local diesel specialist (JG Parks) came out to the coach to investigate the issue. They determined the CAPS pump that was installed in May of 2020 by Cummins of Richmond, VA (but supplied by TamerX Diesel) has failed as well and is out of warranty.

I had to buy another CAPS pump and JG Parks installed it ($3,500). Still No Run! Tech said the fuel pressure is in speck and engine codes have cleared, but are now thinking it could be that when the CAPS failed the 2nd time, that is clogged the injectors. JG Parks is now suggesting I have them pull and clean the injectors ($1,300).

The question I have is when a CAPS Pump is replaced, is any type of ECM reprogramming required? Wondering if this could be the issue?

Thanks.
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Old 11-30-2022, 02:30 PM   #2
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Are you sure the Lift pump is working and that the fuel filters are being primed.



Easiest thing to do is loosen the primary and see if fuel comes out when you turn the key, the lift pump runs for ~30-60 seconds. If you get fuel from the primary move to the secondary and see if you get fuel. On my rig there is a port on top of the secondary fuel filter you could put a pressure gauge on and while the lift pump is running you's see pressure but while engine runs it goes to negative.



On my rig I have 3 fuse holders in the passenger side rear electrical bay. One fuse is for transmission, there are 6 for the engine ECM & Diagnostics, I'd check the fuses.
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Old 11-30-2022, 04:38 PM   #3
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Just what Jim said. Make sure you have fuel flowing when the ignition is turned on for at least 30 seconds. I would also suggest installing a FASS fuel system as many of us have done. The injection pump Hass to pull that fuel all the way from the fuel tank And if it gets too much air will destroy itself. So any little vacuum leak in that fuel line will eventually kill the injection pump or caps pump. I know what you’re going through because I lost my caps pump a year ago this month and have since installed a FASS System on my coach in hopes of never going through that again.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:20 PM   #4
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That is a huge amount of money for a caps pump.
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Old 11-30-2022, 07:46 PM   #5
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Reread your post, where did they check the fuel pressure??


You said they cleared the codes but are they getting any codes while cranking????

I would be skeptical of all the injectors being bad, I would think if one was bad it would still start but run rough.

It is possible that the CAPS pump you installed may be bad and/or the stator. They can do a "click" test on it and it will be pass/fail, you have to use a cummins laptop with the Cummins software to do this. The stator is a replaceable but a lot of companies don't want to fool with doing it, especially on a newly installed CAPS pump.
https://shop.cummins.com/CSSNAStore/...nt-kit-4089399

Did they replace the transient suppressor when they put the new CAPS pump in
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:34 AM   #6
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responses

Thanks everyone for your responses. The mechanic is using a PC with the Cummins diagnostic software and has confirmed "click" test works, fuel pressure to lift pump is fine, pressure from lift pump to CAPS is fine and pressure from CAPS to injectors is at spec. It is our intention to sell the coach after we get it running as we have decided that after 6 years, we LOVE the RV life and are looking to get into a bit newer and smaller coach, and off the big rig chassis.

The original CAPS cost of $10,000 entailed having to first buy and have installed a new accumulator which was what the first non-cummins repair shop thought was the issue was. It was then determined (by Cummins in Richmond, VA) that it was not the accumulator and the CAPS. This is why it totaled about $10,000. A real crap show....but when your coach is 300 miles from your home, you are at the mercy of which ever repair shop is closes to where the rig is stranded at the time.

So moving forward, I will have the mechanic check to confirm all of the fuses in the rear passenger bay are ok and not blown. I am hopeful that once the injectors are cleaned it will run and that none of the injectors have to be replaced.
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Old 12-01-2022, 06:47 AM   #7
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transient suppressor

Yes, the transient suppressor was replaced when the new CAPS was installed.
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Old 12-01-2022, 07:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceking69 View Post
Yes, the transient suppressor was replaced when the new CAPS was installed.
I have an 01 cat on a FL chassis. had idle problems due to injector fouling. installed 10 cans of seafoam to clean the injectors... dang if it didn't work??? I got lucky, sounds like yours may be plugged. Sitting is the bain of fuel injectors... fuel and air to run, did you already check your filter and air input system? I wouldn't guess the intake manifold leaking because no codes, but stranger things have happened.
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Old 12-01-2022, 08:59 AM   #9
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There was a recent post where a CAPS pump was replaced, owner drove ~200 miles and coach died. Ended up being the wiring harness to the CAPS pump was not fully connected.
Another owner had a no start, replaced CAPS pump and still wouldn't start, ended up being the engine wiring harness to the ECM.



So you might just check the harnesses.
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Old 12-01-2022, 09:37 AM   #10
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I would think that if its a wiring harness issue to ECM that the cummins software would have found a code fault? Would that not be the case?
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:01 AM   #11
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Not sure but I'm surprised you are not getting any fault codes with a no start situation.
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Old 12-01-2022, 10:23 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceking69 View Post
Thanks everyone for your responses. The mechanic is using a PC with the Cummins diagnostic software and has confirmed "click" test works, fuel pressure to lift pump is fine, pressure from lift pump to CAPS is fine and pressure from CAPS to injectors is at spec. It is our intention to sell the coach after we get it running as we have decided that after 6 years, we LOVE the RV life and are looking to get into a bit newer and smaller coach, and off the big rig chassis.

The original CAPS cost of $10,000 entailed having to first buy and have installed a new accumulator which was what the first non-cummins repair shop thought was the issue was. It was then determined (by Cummins in Richmond, VA) that it was not the accumulator and the CAPS. This is why it totaled about $10,000. A real crap show....but when your coach is 300 miles from your home, you are at the mercy of which ever repair shop is closes to where the rig is stranded at the time.

So moving forward, I will have the mechanic check to confirm all of the fuses in the rear passenger bay are ok and not blown. I am hopeful that once the injectors are cleaned it will run and that none of the injectors have to be replaced.
Disclaimer: I don't speak diesel so bare with me but let me throw this out here.

If you tech is using Cummins diagnostic software, I would think that like in LD truck and automotive that the tech could look at pretty much all the data both inputs and outputs on his screen.

That said and if there are no fault codes stored in the ECM? then a competent tech IMO could and should still be able to read data like such as:

What is the pulse width data on the fuel injectors while cranking?..... and If it shows pulse width data ( and Im sure it would) does the pulse width change when cranking and your moving the accelerator from idle to half pedal …… It should change.

TPS throttle position sensor read? and does it change also when moving the accelerator from idle to WOT ?

Coolant Temp Data …does it corollate somewhat to ambient air temp?

IAT intake air temp ….. does it corollate with ambient air temp? it should at be close when cold.
and on and on and applies to the many and every sensor on that engine.

If he is truly using factory level software as stated all the data is right front of him on his screen they should be able to make heads or tales of the issue and find the area of your no start.

I know some of the above may sound to some like tech bashing …that is not my intent, my intent is to try and help the OP ….. and I believe all the data needed to diagnose the issue is on the screen right in a competent tech.

The good news ( to me) is the Cummins diagnostic software communicates with your coach…….and if so the data is their to guide him to the issue.

Seems to me that if the engine has the correct fuel pressure and has injector pulse you should at least be seeing smoke out the exhaust or be trying to fire off while cranking …and if not? I just might be pulling a injector to look for good diesel fuel spraying …but again Im not a diesel tech.


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Old 12-01-2022, 03:41 PM   #13
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RobRoy,

All makes sense to me, but just not sure how the tech is diagnosing the issue. I have used this diesel specialist for a few years now and have been satisfied; however I don't disagree in that I am not sure why the diagnostic software is not specifically stating something to the effect "injector pressure low". When the engine cranks, not a lick of smoke comes out of the exhaust. This is why the tech believes the injectors are not getting fuel, even thought the CAPS output fuel pressure is in spec, as per the Tech and diagnostic software.
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Old 12-01-2022, 03:53 PM   #14
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In a discussion with a Cummins tech moments ago, he indicated that without the engine running there is no codes that the software can pick up that would indicate an issue with the injectors....so another $1,300 goes into the RV!

Fingers crossed this fixes it so that we can put her up for sale!
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