Noisy ride in a 2000 Monaco Signature tag axle coach

[SteveSkinner]

I am in agreement about tire pressure

You really want the minimum pressure you can get away with based on axle weight/ tire chart
I picked up my coach in August from the storage facility and they had checked fluids and tires
I had driven not 50 miles and had to stop because of the rough ride as described above
Changed steer pressure to 100 and the next 5500 miles were very comfortable.
Just changed coaches and had to re shoe
Chose 315/80 for the steer because I can run them at 110 rather than 120 for the 295/80s

[Papa_Jim]

The Dynasty and the Signature share the same chassis. The Signature has heavier frame rails because it carries a heavier engine and transmission. I don't know if the Signature uses the same air bags as the Dynasty.

I would want to know what the air pressure was in the front tires. I would want to know what the air pressure was on the air valve controller for the tag axle.

I would be very disappointed to learn that a MCI, Prevost, or anything else, could ride smoother than any Monaco with a tag axle.

[vtwinwilly]

Originally Posted by Bookman

... Perhaps I need to find a way to drive each of those chassis so that I will have a better idea. And maybe if the opportunity presents itself, I should drive a different Signature or Navigator to compare apples to apples.

Again, thanks for the input.

This is the best thing you can do.

Now I'm hoping I don't step on too many toes here, but you asked.

Let's focus on the front suspension on the Roadmaster for this conversation. If you look at it, it's a solid axle bolted to a huge steel rectangular frame with arms that reach out to the 4 airbags. All of this structure is very, very heavy... and it is all un-sprung weight.

In Suspension 101, I learned that un-sprung weight is the enemy of a smooth ride. You just can't move that much mass without some sort of rankor. That is why I say go drive various chassis and draw your own conclussion.

If you drive a Spartan or Freightliner with a solid axle, but just 2 air bags (no big steel rectangular structure) you'll notice less harshness over expnasion joints... less un-sprung weight.

Then drive a Spartan or Freightliner with IFS (Independent Front Suspension) and you'll be amazed at the smoothness of the ride... the least un-sprung weight. Suspension can more easily travel up and down to absorb road imperfections.

Now with all that said, I beleive the Roamaster provides the most lateral stability of all the chassis, but at a cost.

OK... all you Roadmaster folks, I'm ready for my thrashing!

[Mike Canter]

My 2004 44' Signature with a tag is real smooth and real quiet with excellent handling qualities. I have zero road noise up front with no sensation of speed. I can't tell if I am doing 60 or 75 mph. That Roadmaster 10 bag, 10 shock chassis is as good as it gets. I have the original factory installed Bilstein shocks that are really smooth and comfortable and I also have the Michelin XZA2 Energy tires all around. I run 110 psi in the front, 100 psi on the drive and 85 on the tag with the tag bag regulator set at 42 psi. I have no rocking motion, zero wandering and no crosswind problems. My bet is those Hancock tires are the problem because I can tell you it is not the Signature chassis/suspension. Being the top luxury motorhome that Monaco makes the Signature has all kinds of extra sound installation underneath. I will admit that Interstate 5 in California was a little rough and noisey on bridge expansion joints but that is the fault of California and not the Signature.

As far as the difference in a IFS and a solid beam I cannot tell the difference in driving one or the other. I have had a chance to really put my Signature into an emergency maneuver to avoid and idiot who ran a stop sign and I was doing 65 mph. I had to steer abruptly and take the shoulder to avoid hitting him broadside and it was amazing how well 46,000 lbs handled.

The Signature came with Goodyear G670 tires.

[sc3283]

vtwin, no thrashing from me...reality is reality. Just because I own something doesn't make it the best in my eyes. I tell it like it is and don't try to pawn off to others any line of BS. I own my coach because it happened to appear at the right time...PERIOD. I didn't buy due to thinking it was superior or the best. If mine had had leaf springs frt and rear...I'd have most likely bought it, due to the excellent condition it was in upon looking.
Of all the class A's I have driven (which isn't many)....I will say the Roadmaster rides better than ANY leaf spring models I had driven when I was looking

[Mike Canter]

Vtwinwilly, I thought about your pitch on IFS last night. Let me say first that this has nothing to do with the OP and the question being asked. What is he going to do...change the front suspension? Yes, you are correct that in performance cars that unsprung weight is important. Based on what I have learned over the years I am not sure that it applies to big heavy motorhomes or buses. If it was really good then everyone would have switched years ago. There was one motorhome company that did switch to IFS and then switched back. Don't know why. Ford uses it in their pickup trucks but Chevy doesn't.If you take a real close look at the Roadmaster suspension and actually look at the components under the airbags (springs) you would see that it is not really that much in unsprung weight. I bet you that it is a little heavier than the IFS so your statement is true but I bet it is not enough to make a difference percentage wise.

[Twomed]

My Dynasty runs same air as Mike's except I run a little more in the tags (100). Also have 315's FS400 tires on the front, AND Koni shocks from the factory. We had Bilstiens on the previous coach and even my co-pilot comments on how much less expansion joint noise/bumps we now have. I can run less than 105/110 in the front, but no noticeable gain in ride, so I run them at that pressure for better mileage/wear, I hope.

Also note that a fully loaded coach will ride much differently than an empty dealer coach, that probably is running on 1/4 tank of fuel and no water...hence tire pressure vs ride becomes even more of an issue. Mine ran about 33k on a test drive (scaled it) and runs around 41-43K for trips loaded, just as an example.

Just food for thought as you head out on the great hunt. IFS vs straight axle is a whole 'nother issue. BUT I like my handling and fewer parts since we don't trade every 100k or so. Spartan engineeers tell me about 110k and 6 years on rubber suuspension bushing just like 'vette parts only a lot more $$$.

[vtwinwilly]

Originally Posted by Mike Canter

Vtwinwilly, I thought about your pitch on IFS last night. Let me say first that this has nothing to do with the OP and the question being asked. What is he going to do...change the front suspension? Yes, you are correct that in performance cars that unsprung weight is important. Based on what I have learned over the years I am not sure that it applies to big heavy motorhomes or buses. If it was really good then everyone would have switched years ago. There was one motorhome company that did switch to IFS and then switched back. Don't know why. Ford uses it in their pickup trucks but Chevy doesn't.If you take a real close look at the Roadmaster suspension and actually look at the components under the airbags (springs) you would see that it is not really that much in unsprung weight. I bet you that it is a little heavier than the IFS so your statement is true but I bet it is not enough to make a difference percentage wise.

I wasn't necessarily pitching IFS, though I do think highly of them. I was responding to and encouraging the OP's statement that he should test drive the other chassis and draw his own conclussion. I wanted him to be certain to try all types of chassis (solid axle and IFS). It was never my intent or suggestion that he should replace a front suspension on an existing coach. I beleive he's still in the shopping phase.

While my experience isn't vast, I have driven a Dynasty, Diplomat, Windsor, and Endeavor all on a Roadmaster chassis. Everyone exhibitted the same characteristics described by the OP. The only exception was the Windsor which didn't absorb the expansion joints any better, but it did isolate it from the passengers better so it didn't make as much noise.

In the case of the Endeavor, I drove over an expansion joint on a bridge where the concrete had lifted up about an inch. When I hit it, I could literally feel the steering column jerk from left to right as the impact transferred up through the suspension and pushed the steering box. The top of the steering column was like an upside down pendulem and the impact about jerked the wheel out of my hand. Note... I'm not saying the wheel turned left then right, I'm saying the entire steering column jerked towards the left wall and then the right on a line parrallel to the dash.

I've also driven several Dutch Star DP's on the Spartan Mountain Master chassis with "Easy Drive" IFS. For the longest time I thought these were best driving, best riding and truest tracking motorhomes I had ever driven. That was up until last year when a buddy of mine purchased a Mandalay on a Freightliner chassis with IFS. Now Mandalay isn't even considered a high end coach, but this one might have the best riding and handling characterics of any coach I have ever driven. I drove it over some very rough rutted asphalt and could barely feel the imperfections in the road, and the rutting didn't cause it to vere to one side or the other. It just tracked straight ahead. Even in heavy winds, or when trucks pass... it's unaffected. Needless to say, I was/am thoroughly impressed.

My current coach is an old '93 Navigator. It was built back when Holiday Rambler was... well... still Holiday Rambler. It is on a Spartan Mountain Master Chassis with a solid I-beam suspension and until I can afford better, it is my favorite!

[moisheh]

The OP is getting responss from Dynasty owners without tag axles. Not the same. We have a 2008 Dynasty. Almost the same chassis as a Sig. The ride is great. I have never considered it to be rough in any way. I do not know if a 2000 Sig uses the same Roadmaster chassis. I will make another suggestion. We also own a Classic Bluebird and naturally follow Bluebirds. There is no comparison between a BB and any Monaco other than one of the older Crown conversions. The Sig is Monaco's best and is far superior to most of the other plastic MH's. BB's are in a league of their own. You have to look beyond the fluff and things like Aqua Hots . When a Monaco is/was built it had to be built within a certain budget in order to be price competitive. At Bluebird the designers and engineers made their suggestions and the final price was determined by their input. Almost no budget restraints. In 2000 Monaco did not even have an engineer on staff! So I would suggest to the OP that in your price range you could find a BB LXI that would be 10 times the MH and last more than your lifetime. If the OP is interested he could just PM me and I will give him the names of some reliable BB brokers.

[Bookman]

Originally Posted by moisheh

So I would suggest to the OP that in your price range you could find a BB LXI that would be 10 times the MH and last more than your lifetime.

I had the pleasure of spending quite a while with the owner of a BB LXI. He went over it from end to end and from top to bottom, explaining everything about it. We did not take a ride in it, but I did get a very good feel for the construction quality. I was impressed, to say the least.

I mentioned earlier that my perception of the ride of any coach is affected by memories of the ride that I experienced in the buses that I used to drive. For example, Silver Eagles had a solid drive axle, naturally. All three axles rode on torsilastic suspension which is basically a steel pipe filled with rubber and a steel rod running through the center of it. The both steer positions and both tag axle positions were fully independent . The excellent ride comes from the rubber twisting inside the outer "pipe" casing as the wheels run across the surface of the road. In my opinion there is no such thing as a better ride than that. That memory casts somewhat an unfair shadow over the coaches that I am checking into now, I think.

As I said in my original post, we are in the exploration phase right now. Some day I would like to drive a Bluebird. Until that opportunity comes along, I am trying to learn what I can about the tab axle coaches that are available. In fact, I am about to go out and take a look at one that I believe rides on a Fleetwood chassis and another one that rides on a Spartan chassis. Both are about the same age as the Monaco Signature that I drove before.

I'll report back if I get to drive them.

[JimM68]

I don't think the OP was even asking about ride quality, he was asking about noise.

Noisy over bumps and expansion joints is TIRES, period end of discussion.

[Bookman]

Originally Posted by JimM68

I don't think the OP was even asking about ride quality, he was asking about noise.

Noisy over bumps and expansion joints is TIRES, period end of discussion.

Actually, I was asking about both - the hard jarring way that it hit expansion joints, and the noise that seemed to not be isolated from the interior.

[vtwinwilly]

Originally Posted by Bookman

...Some day I would like to drive a Bluebird. Until that opportunity comes along, I am trying to learn what I can about the tab axle coaches that are available. In fact, I am about to go out and take a look at one that I believe rides on a Fleetwood chassis and another one that rides on a Spartan chassis. Both are about the same age as the Monaco Signature that I drove before.

I'll report back if I get to drive them.

Good Luck to you!

Drive them all then buy what works best for you!

Please do report back and let us know your thoughts.

... and yes... the Bluebird LXI is in a class above what we've been discussing here.

[Traps90]

Before choosing to order our new Diplomat we tesst drove a Winnie Tour, Newmar DutchStar and the Diplomat, my wifes words are she felt safer and more secure in the Diplomat cause of the stiffer handling, she said the others wallowed around more than she personally cared for.

My opinion is they all handled pretty good, but I did prefer the Diplomat with it's more planted and solid feel.