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Old 04-03-2014, 07:28 AM   #29
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Jerry

Quick response. In both cases I am aware of, the safety units were replaced free of charge by Norcold. The fees were for the techs to come to my friends coaches and swap them out. When the Norcold guys did the swapping, there was no charge.

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:35 AM   #30
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WOW !! I am so sorry to hear of your situation, and simultaneously, so glad that you avoided major damage to you and coach!!

I am wondering if you can give more details of what happened. Is it your thought that things were getting hot, the safety unit blew and shut down the power, but by that time, the cavity was already very very hot? or some other scenario. Or, had the unit failed, and you bypassed the unit, and then it got hot? My friends who had this problem and did the bypass, then ran their refers for short times and then off for longer times, just to keep use to a minimum until the new units were installed. Your experience could help others on the list.

Again, glad that you are OK.

Gary
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:47 PM   #31
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Norcold 1200 refrig

I got the replacement black box installed today. I was without a refer for over three weeks from the time I called norcold and spending two trips to a dealer. The new unit looks just like the old one. I asked the dealer about installing it with the red light pointing down. He had not heard of this fix, and this is not possible following norcold installation sight. I do not know why this box cannot be installed inside the motorhome away from water. I have a spot of dead space under my refer that would be perfect. In my opinion, norcold is holding all of us 1200 owners hostage.
My new box was replaced under warranty, but that does not solve the problem of inconvenience or wasted food and time.

Bill
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:11 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
TomDent

WOW !! I am so sorry to hear of your situation, and simultaneously, so glad that you avoided major damage to you and coach!!

I am wondering if you can give more details of what happened. Is it your thought that things were getting hot, the safety unit blew and shut down the power, but by that time, the cavity was already very very hot? or some other scenario. Or, had the unit failed, and you bypassed the unit, and then it got hot? My friends who had this problem and did the bypass, then ran their refers for short times and then off for longer times, just to keep use to a minimum until the new units were installed. Your experience could help others on the list.

Again, glad that you are OK.

Gary
From what I've read, and I've researched this extensively, the failures that result in a fire almost always happen when running on AC. They are not related to the propane burner, and the fridge does not usually cause a fire when running on propane.

Apparently the AC heating elements sometimes develop a hotspot due to impending failure. This hotspot turns red hot, overheats the adjacent cooling unit tube, which is under-designed, and weakens it. When the tube finally fails, the ammonia along with some amount of hydrogen gas is vented under pressure and ignites. Usually this syndrome is detectable by placing a sensor in the heating element area that shuts down the fridge when the heating element overheats, and that's what all the recalls do. They do nothing to fix the underlying problem, nor does the safety device always prevent fires. Most of the time it does, IF it is installed correctly AND if it hasn't failed. As you can see from this topic, these devices are notoriously unreliable? If they fail that often when there isn't a problem, how often do they fail when there IS a problem. No one really knows. Once the coolant escaping from the fridge ignites, it's pretty much all over unless you are right there to put the fire out instantly.

This is the result:



I was lucky when mine failed. The safety device shut down my fridge and there was no fire. However I was left with no working refrigerator and a huge dilemma. Did I fix the cooling unit and still have a refrigerator with a lot of known defects (bad control boards, leaky and un-replaceable door seals, hinges that break, etc.) or just bite the bullet and get a residential. After doing a LOT of research I was convinced that I would not be able to sleep at night if one of these things remained in my RV.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:24 PM   #33
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So here is the scenario I encountered. I was going to bed around 10:30 and noticed the green light was off on the norcold, it had stopped. I tried to turn it on and got "no dc" on the readout. Went outside and could see the red light glowing through the cover, which I had never seen before. I googled the issue, tried a small magnet but it didn't work. Everywhere I looked did state to be very careful when doing the override but we had just gone shopping and the thing was full. Here's the thing, when I powered on the unit the light didn't light right away, it took about a minute, then it would light and turn the unit off. I had a gut feeling that it was more than wet, but jumped it anyway. went to bed one eye open and at 3am it blew. see picture, there were no other warnings, nor yellow powder in the cavity. There were flames shooting out from the canister on the right wrapped in the foil insulation, not sure what part it is. The wall inside the coach next to there was hot enough to the touch to ignite.

I hope this helps others, and yes I feel lucky to have been in it and survived.

Anyone thinking about doing the switch to a RR I highly recommend sooner than later at any cost. Norcold 1200's are dangerous units, life is precious.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:45 PM   #34
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here is the picture after the fire. Tom
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Old 04-05-2014, 09:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tricotec View Post
Did I fix the cooling unit and still have a refrigerator with a lot of known defects (bad control boards, leaky and un-replaceable door seals, hinges that break, etc.) or just bite the bullet and get a residential. After doing a LOT of research I was convinced that I would not be able to sleep at night if one of these things remained in my RV.
ABSOLUTELY. Our Norcold 1210 was in the full wall slide right at the beginning of the hallway to the bedroom, and right next to a fiberboard clothes closet, as you can see by the picture of our new Samsung refer below. The boiler chamber was right next to the closet wall. If it had burned up during the night, chances are that my wife and I would have been trapped in the bedroom had the flames progressed very far. Not a pleasant thought, to say the least.


As you can see, the Samsung fits right into the same space, but is SO much nicer, works so much better, is more power efficient, and holds 50% more food. It cost a little over $3000 with dealer installation and it takes about two work days to do the conversion. But after reading this thread and others, I would say that the cost was worth every penny just for the piece of mind. The much nicer refer we ended up with was a bonus.

More info here.
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Old 04-06-2014, 07:35 AM   #36
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Just wondering and need more information. You guys that have made the conversion to the Samsung, how do you handle the problems inherent with boondocking, which is where the Norcold really is the only game in town if your coach is LP equipped (I think, with the exception of the Pennsylvania Dutch adaptation (which I dont understand at all)?

How do you power the refrig to maintain the freezer and refer temp after going to the Samsung when not connected to shore power? Are you adding additional battery banks someplace? Are you running your generator much more (at $4.00 per gallon, this is not a cheap solution), or is it efficient enough on 12 volts that it doesn't draw down the house batteries too much? What has been your experience? Also, I have Aqua Hot so I guess one benefit is then I could remove the propane tank and have more space in the basement.

Gary
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:28 AM   #37
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Gary,

To answer your questions, while the Samsung RF197 does not work with propane, of course, it is much more efficient on AC power than the Norcold was. (New residential refrigerators are getting more power efficient all the time.) It also works much better than the Norcold did on AC power. The food in both the refrigerator and the freezer sections get cold faster and stays cold universally throughout the entire interior of the unit.

I recently came back from the FMCA convention in Perry, GA, where we dry camped in a field for 7 days. The refer ran on the inverter the entire time. I did not notice any significant difference in battery drain from prior years when I had the Norcold running on propane. Like always, I ran the generator only for an hour or two in the morning when I got up, and also in the evening after dinner (or before dinner if we were using the microwave to cook). Keeping the batteries up did not require any additional usage of the generator than that. I was pleasantly surprised. As is prudent any time you dry camp, we watched our power consumption and tended not to use high energy appliances (like the hair dryer, coffee pot, or microwave) unless the genset was running.

Our Diplomat has a Magnum ME2012 2000 watt modified sine wave inverter/charger, and four deep cycle house batteries. No upgrades were required to run the Samsung refrigerator. The Samsung runs fine with an MSW inverter and does not require a pure sine wave power source. (I believe some models of residential refrigerators do better with a PSW inverter, but I'm not sure about that.)

As for the Amish cooling unit replacement option, you can read more information here. I considered that option, but after paying for parts and installation, I would have paid at least half of what I paid to install the residential refer, and I'd have had the same inefficient Norcold unit in the end.
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Old 04-06-2014, 10:57 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdent View Post
So here is the scenario I encountered. I was going to bed around 10:30 and noticed the green light was off on the norcold, it had stopped. I tried to turn it on and got "no dc" on the readout. Went outside and could see the red light glowing through the cover, which I had never seen before. I googled the issue, tried a small magnet but it didn't work. Everywhere I looked did state to be very careful when doing the override but we had just gone shopping and the thing was full. Here's the thing, when I powered on the unit the light didn't light right away, it took about a minute, then it would light and turn the unit off. I had a gut feeling that it was more than wet, but jumped it anyway. went to bed one eye open and at 3am it blew. see picture, there were no other warnings, nor yellow powder in the cavity. There were flames shooting out from the canister on the right wrapped in the foil insulation, not sure what part it is. The wall inside the coach next to there was hot enough to the touch to ignite.

I hope this helps others, and yes I feel lucky to have been in it and survived.

Anyone thinking about doing the switch to a RR I highly recommend sooner than later at any cost. Norcold 1200's are dangerous units, life is precious.
The "foil wrapped canister" on the right is the boiler (see drawing below). The propane burner is at the bottom, and the AC heating element is a few inches above that. It is insulated because it is the "hot" part of the cooling unit to protect nearby components from the heat. Under the foil insulation is the chimney and the cooling unit riser goes up the middle of it.



The boiler is where the problem that causes the fires occurs.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:09 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Gary.Jones View Post
Just wondering and need more information. You guys that have made the conversion to the Samsung, how do you handle the problems inherent with boondocking, which is where the Norcold really is the only game in town if your coach is LP equipped (I think, with the exception of the Pennsylvania Dutch adaptation (which I dont understand at all)?

How do you power the refrig to maintain the freezer and refer temp after going to the Samsung when not connected to shore power? Are you adding additional battery banks someplace? Are you running your generator much more (at $4.00 per gallon, this is not a cheap solution), or is it efficient enough on 12 volts that it doesn't draw down the house batteries too much? What has been your experience? Also, I have Aqua Hot so I guess one benefit is then I could remove the propane tank and have more space in the basement.

Gary
The Samsung is quite a unique refrigerator...and is a great choice for a Monaco RV (or any RV with a MSW inverter as Monoco equipped). Most other refrigerators require a PSW.

The Samsung has two separate compressors for fridge and freezer so neither is over-cooled to accommodate the other. The Samsung compressor has an unusual feature where it rectifies the incoming AC to DC, then inverts the DC back to a precise frequency and voltage AC to run the compressor at just the right speed for current needs. This makes it super efficient, AND the great thing about this is it makes the compressor immune to issues with the MSW inverter. I've heard of a lot of people installing PSW inverters "just in case"....you don't need them for the Samsung and it's a waste of money. The existing 2000 watt MSW inverter is more than adequate to handle the Samsung.

My Samsung pulls 9-11 amps from the batteries (or alternator) when it is running. I turn off the ice-maker and enable the energy saver (cuts off the heater on the door seals) to minimize consumption when we're on the road or boondocking. I can run it all day, and I did nothing whatsoever to my battery or inverter setup. If you are a serious dry-camper, you will want to get a larger bank, but for my needs the existing battery and inverter are perfect. Changing over to gel batteries or adding a bank or two would increase capacity a lot. I also do not have solar, but I've heard that it greatly improves boondocking ability because it covers usage during daylight hours. I don't dry camp extensively, but when I've stopped in rest areas for a little sleep, the generator kicks on once during the night and shuts back down a while later.

For a typical Monaco the Samsung is a no-brainer. And if you go to any of the RV shows it is almost impossible to find a large class A motorhome with anything else but residential. (The new ones do have larger inverters, battery banks and generator, all of which extend the capacity for boondocking).

My eventual plan is to get rid of my last LP appliance (the stove - I have aqua-hot too) and replace it with electric. Removing the LP tank would let me put a LOT of batteries in as it is HUGE in a Monaco.
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Old 04-06-2014, 11:20 AM   #40
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Alternative to the Troubled Norcold Recall Box

I just ran across an alternative control unit that performs the same function as the troubled Norcold recall box and more. It is the ARPrv Controller which is sold by the same folks who make those Amish cooling unit replacements. It is reset-able, and it does not look like it would be as prone to water problems as the Norcold unit.

See more information in this thread.

I cannot personally recommend this unit, as I no longer have any use for it. But I hope this helps someone looking for a better safety alternative than Norcold is offering.
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