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Old 07-27-2017, 03:17 PM   #15
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That is exactly why I asked for the details of the grades. I've never done Ten Sleep to Buffalo, but it looks like a good one on Google Maps with the terrain feature turned on. Nice switchback in there.

That is why I passed on a Camelot - the grades out here are serious and I wanted a big torque mill. Also an engine brake is MANDATORY. Exhaust brake won't cut it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Creek_Pass is another one that will make a mouse out of your coach and fast.

I have 500hp and had no overheat issues but wished I had 700hp on this pull. I ran Wolfs Creek in 95f deg ambient heat with the pedal on the wood for miles and miles....and ran @ 195-200deg with the cooling fan sounding like a 747 jet liner maxed out

I don't believe for a sec that a properly operating coach will overheat because of the transmission gearing programming and if at all possible I would wager that there a re-flash to correct it and the update was not done.

Keep in mind that the local garbage men and truckers are running these hills ( mountains ) all day long and the commercial chassis manufacturers get feed back on pending issues from them constantly while under warranty and would know about it.

Yes, I manually shift my trans in certain conditions ..... however, to prevent my coach from overheating is not one of them.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:27 PM   #16
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That is exactly why I asked for the details of the grades. I've never done Ten Sleep to Buffalo, but it looks like a good one on Google Maps with the terrain feature turned on. Nice switchback in there.

That is why I passed on a Camelot - the grades out here are serious and I wanted a big torque mill. Also an engine brake is MANDATORY. Exhaust brake won't cut it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_Creek_Pass is another one that will make a mouse out of your coach and fast.

I have 500hp and had no overheat issues but wished I had 700hp on this pull. I ran Wolfs Creek in 95f deg ambient heat with the pedal on the wood for miles and miles....and ran @ 195-200deg with the cooling fan sounding like a 747 jet liner maxed out

I don't believe for a sec that a properly operating coach will overheat because of the transmission gearing programming and if at all possible I would wager that there a re-flash to correct it and the update was not done.

Keep in mind that the local garbage men and truckers are running these hills ( mountains ) all day long and the commercial chassis manufacturers get feed back on pending issues from them constantly while under warranty and would know about it.

Yes, I manually shift my trans in certain conditions ..... however, to prevent my coach from overheating is not one of them.
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Old 07-27-2017, 04:15 PM   #17
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Or you could always just go to a workshop with the engineers from Allison/CAT/ Cummins...and hear them to tell you it's better to shift when in high torque/load situations.

Not JMHO...but from the horse's mouth.

PS...all our big trucks running in Yellowstone every day push the buttons/too. Run yours however you can afford too.

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Old 07-27-2017, 04:35 PM   #18
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Another good pull (or series of ) is state route 74 from Heppner, Oregon to Pilot Rock , Oregon..
With our old '99 36' Infinity (454GM & GM tranny) was in low gear on several hills, not only to keep it cool but just to get up the hills..narrow 2 lane, up & down & up & down, rinse & repeat as needed.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:16 PM   #19
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Or you could always just go to a workshop with the engineers from Allison/CAT/ Cummins...and hear them to tell you it's better to shift when in high torque/load situations.

Downshift?.....I couldn't agree more... lugging the engine can kill main bearings ...that is another subject IMO


Not JMHO...but from the horse's mouth.


But IMO what you won't hear from them same Choo-Choo Charlies is that you NEED to do this to keep your engine from overheating

PS...all our big trucks running in Yellowstone every day push the buttons/too. Run yours however you can afford too.

Most cases I drive by the boost gage for fuel economy ...... low boost is my friend and in cases like Wolf Creek Pass and the likes I keep it at 2k for power


My guess also is that one could be quite surprised when a factory level scanner is plugged into the data port of their coach and find out how many up-dates or flash's they are behind on that deal with known issues.

Will it run without the updates? ...sure ....and my pc will run on windows 98 pretty good also.

As I think to myself ..why wouldn't the Choo-Choo Charlie's who stated that use the on-board information gleaned from the FUEL INJECTION TIMING and sensors such as / MPH / BOOST / ABSOLUTE PRESSURE SENSOR / TRANS GEAR POSITION / % OF TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK UP (if used ) / ENGINE TEMP / TRANSMISSION FLUID TEMP and the likes to MAP the correct transmission gear shift strategy and cooling fan RPM needed to keep the engine cool and such ...to me this doesn't seem to make any sense.

Im not trying to be argumentative ...I'm just trying to understand the engineer's statement.


Just My Opinion I Could Be Wrong
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Old 07-29-2017, 08:59 PM   #20
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CherylandPat (not sure who we are talking to) - lets start with some questions:
  • What model of Camelot - tag axle or the shorter (and lighter) one?
  • What engine and transmission?
  • How long have you owned it?
  • Has it always behaved this way - what is the time scale and number of incidents?
  • Can you describe the grade and tell us which grade this has occured on?
  • How were you driving when you hit it? Did you downshift and keep the hammer down or did you let it climb slowly?

That does sound a little warm, but if it is the tag axle I looked at those and decided they didn't have enough motor for the coach considering that I do mostly mountain driving. My C13 Cat will touch 212 on a hard climb on a hot day, but I can see the fans cool it back down to under 200.

You might want to post this on the engine forum as well. Not all Cummins owners look here.

BTW - with that kind of coolant temp you might want to install a pyro meter in the exhaust to see how hot your exhaust gasses are. You don't want to bake your turbo.
We bought this in Dec of 16, didn't have a problem until April.
It's a 400 isl. Pat has been downshifting and letting it climb slowly, keeping the RPMs up to 2000.
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:06 PM   #21
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Loss of power going up steep hills

It's been a 6% long grade. then shorter grades even. Problem has not resolved since April, Allison transmission. They check it out, do some things that they find, say it's fixed, but still not right, feels like it's almost getting too much fuel,
I have a lot of useful information to ask when we bring it in again
Thank you
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Old 07-29-2017, 09:11 PM   #22
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Lots of good discussion and ideas for Pat to talk to the tech about at freightliner when we bring it in next week. You are right their is something wrong. . How expensive would it be to put an engine brake in vs using this exhaust brake.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:13 AM   #23
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Lots of good discussion and ideas for Pat to talk to the tech about at freightliner when we bring it in next week. You are right their is something wrong. . How expensive would it be to put an engine brake in vs using this exhaust brake.
The engine brake is built into the head of the engine and is very expensive to impossible to add if it wasn't part of the original design.

To put it in perspective, my engine brake has two stages (three and six cylinders), on the second stage it makes 450 braking HP, an exhaust brake makes around 200.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:58 AM   #24
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CherylandPat - I didn't ask where you live. Brazel's RV Performance in Centralia WA can but the rig on a dyno and do better diagnostics. I've never used them but others on this forum swear by them.
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Old 07-30-2017, 08:36 AM   #25
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You need to put it on a dyno and have it checked. Not just through $$$ at it. A lot of major Cummins shops have them. Might call Cummins and find out which ones do.
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:52 PM   #26
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Yep a dyno just may pull it to it's knees enough to simulate the overheat conditions and save a ton of money and diagnostic time.

Makes one wonder when it was built who called the spec on the radiator Cummins or the coach builder?.....and is it really adequate for the job.

When testing if possible check the inlet and outlet temps across the radiator to know what the temp drop is across it under heavy loads with the fan running full tilt boogie.

Once at running temps and testing and assuming that you can duplicate the problem ....carefully feel for cold spots on the radiator surface ...if so? you have radiator flow issues where it is cool. ( or an infrared temp gun will alo work )

I would have a manual temp mounted at the engine ( cheap) to see if any significant discrepancies between that gage and what the cockpit gage(s) say.

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Old 08-01-2017, 10:23 AM   #27
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The original poster's problem isn't with the radiator size or design!
I run mine all over the mountains here in B.C. We have 8 and 9 percent grades. I've never seen my temp go above 203*!
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Old 08-01-2017, 04:01 PM   #28
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I have a 2006 Camelot 40'PDQ 400ISL (no tag)

When the coach was still relatively new I had an issue one time when the engine temperature got high enough to trigger the alarm and put the engine into a reduced power mode while climbing a steep incline.

I called the Monaco rep, and he asked me if I had been running the transmission in the economy mode? He said that would alter the shift points and thus reduce engine RPM. He said that reduced engine RPM would not allow for proper cooling.

I have never used economy mode since that day and have never had the engine temperature get to that point. I have traveled the exact route many times, and now I pull a heavy toad.

Just came back from Southern California to Las Vegas and the "world's largest thermometer" located in Baker, Ca was reading 113* when we went by it.
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