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Old 11-22-2021, 01:03 PM   #1
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Pressure Protection valve on air tanks leaking

Earlier this summer I had checked my air systems over pretty good and did not find any problems.
Fast forward to now, I am on a trip. I noticed a couple days ago that over night when I was ready to leak and turned the key my low air alarm came on. In the past I could go days without the tanks leaking down. So today I crawled under the coach and started to spray down fittings. On both the front and the rear tanks there are (I believe) pressure protection valves that supply air to air leveling, I have a air schematic for a 1999 Windsor and it shows it as n15759dc and a search gets me this https://www.anythingtruck.com/product/070-KN31000.html. There are two on the rear tank and two on the front tank. All 4 are leaking air, and it looks like where the two parts are attached together with screws. Hers a picture of the front two, as you can see leaking pretty bad. I'm going to ask the question, is this suppose to be that way, is this how they relieve pressure.
Air pressure stays up while traveling.
The schematics that I have do not explain how these pressure protection valves work, the couple websites I went to did not provide explanation. Can someone take a shot on it in layman's terms. The air bags seem to stay up, I've boon docked 3 or 4 nights with the jacks up and the coach has stayed level.
I am in a remote area right now and would not attempt to fool with these now. I could not find any other leaks.
Should I be concerned.
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Old 11-22-2021, 04:54 PM   #2
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Here's some info. Usually some grit gets in there and keeps the seat from fully closing/sealing. If you have moisture in the air system, over time the seat can built up some corrosion and pit. On my Coach it was the air lines at the valves that leaked.
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:04 PM   #3
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OK, this helps. The leaking I observed looks like it was coming from the exhaust vent and is probably normal. Also makes sense as air was coming out of all 4 of these after I had just aired up the system



Now I just have to figure out why my air pressure is going down over night more then it use to.



I did check for leaks on all the brake lines and canisters so I'm good there.



Thanks
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:20 PM   #4
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You’ve probably already done a leak down test? As long as it’s no more than 3psi over a minute, still driveable. Over 3 and I probably wouldn’t want to risk it until it was figured out. You could do the leak down in stages to isolate which system specifically is leaking? I apologize if you e already done that. It’s just the first thing that popped into my head.
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:58 PM   #5
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I understand air systems in general bu have limited knowledge when it comes to the workings of the Chassis air system.

I checked my pressure after 4 hours and it had not dropped at all.
I guess I'm just paranoid.
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:11 PM   #6
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Better safe than sorry! How did you test for air Loss over the 4 hours? Tanks full, engine off, spring brakes applied and service brakes not applied? That confirms you’ve got no leak up to the relay valves (that’s a good thing!). I’d chock the wheels, release the spring brakes , wait for the pressure to stabilize then time it for a minute and see if any pressure loss. If no pressure loss there, you know you have no leak in the spring brake part of the system. Then if you’re still above 100 psi (if not, I’d start the engine and air up then shut it down and continue), I’d keep the spring brakes released (chocks still in place) and hold a full application of the service brakes, wait for the gauges to stabilize then time for another minute and check for pressure loss. If you have pressure loss there, then you know it’s in the service brake portion of your system. If the pressure loss is over 3psi in a minute on that last part, I wouldn’t drive it. Hope that helps!
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Old 11-22-2021, 06:42 PM   #7
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Tanks full, engine off, spring brakes applied and service brakes not applied?


I'm not parked in a good spot to try anything else.



I do have a document that describes about what you have listed, I'll try it tomorrow.
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:51 PM   #8
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PPV valves feed the bags, steps, door seals ect. Basically aux equipment not associated with brakes. I had all my “top hats” leaking. They are designed to shut air off to aux equipment At about 62 psi to conserve air for breaking. I bought 4 and found by just exchanging the top hat I cured the leaks without removing the bodies from the tank.
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:06 PM   #9
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I've had to replace mine - some of them more than once.... the ones with the open end on the hat should be installed with the hole down so it doesn't fill with water and corrode etc. I've gone to the style with the filter in them due to the grit issue. https://www.finditparts.com/products...aldex-90554107 seems to work a little better. Just a common maintenance item - not enough leakage there to affect much - just annoying not holding air as well as you would like.
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Old 11-23-2021, 05:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacwjames View Post
OK, this helps. The leaking I observed looks like it was coming from the exhaust vent and is probably normal.
Thanks
The PR-3 and 4 don't have an exhaust vent. Just a Supply and Delivery port. When air pressure is over 65psi the valve is pushed off its seat and Supply air goes out the Delivery port. If air pressure drops below 65 the spring pushes the valve closed and blocks the Delivery port. If you see any "external" air leakage at this valve (**more than the acceptable amount), it is bad.

It could also leak internally which is more common. To test for internal leakage, you would remove the line from the Delivery port and see if the supply air leaks out (past the closed valve) when the supply air is less than 65 psi.

**From the manual:
LEAKAGE CHECKS
1. Charge the air system to full pressure and shut the
engine off.
2. Apply a soap solution around the cap of the pressure
protection valve. A one inch bubble in three seconds
or longer is acceptable. PR‑3 valve ‑ No leakage is
permissible at the bottom of the valve.
3. Drain the air pressure from the delivery side of the
pressure protection valve and disconnect the air line
to it.
4. Apply a soap solution to the delivery port. A one inch
bubble in five seconds or more is acceptable
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Old 11-23-2021, 09:28 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CountryB View Post
The PR-3 and 4 don't have an exhaust vent. Just a Supply and Delivery port. When air pressure is over 65psi the valve is pushed off its seat and Supply air goes out the Delivery port. If air pressure drops below 65 the spring pushes the valve closed and blocks the Delivery port. If you see any "external" air leakage at this valve (**more than the acceptable amount), it is bad.

It could also leak internally which is more common. To test for internal leakage, you would remove the line from the Delivery port and see if the supply air leaks out (past the closed valve) when the supply air is less than 65 psi.

**From the manual:
LEAKAGE CHECKS
1. Charge the air system to full pressure and shut the
engine off.
2. Apply a soap solution around the cap of the pressure
protection valve. A one inch bubble in three seconds
or longer is acceptable. PR‑3 valve ‑ No leakage is
permissible at the bottom of the valve.
3. Drain the air pressure from the delivery side of the
pressure protection valve and disconnect the air line
to it.
4. Apply a soap solution to the delivery port. A one inch
bubble in five seconds or more is acceptable

I see that only the PR-2 has an exhaust port but that does not look like what I have.


Well then I may have a problem


I did a brake leak down test today, I held the brake pedal down for 3 minutes (longer then necessary) and did not see any movement in the air pressure dial gauge. Did it again for 1 minute same thing so at least I know I'm good there.


It seems strange that all 4 of the PPV are bad, something doesn't smell right. Funny that the front 2 stopped leaking after a while, possibly when the pressure in the system bleed off.
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:13 AM   #12
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I just tested my park/emergency brake and it had zero leak down after charging the system releasing the brake with the engine off.





Now the MILLION dollar question is whether the PPV's leaking is a critical fix item or not.

As of now the engine has no problem keeping up with air supply and even with engine off the leak down is very slow. Doesn't take much air to cause bubbles but hard to gauge how bad the leaks really are.
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Old 11-23-2021, 04:57 PM   #13
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It's been about 6 hours since I tested the brakes and park brake and my air pressure has not dropped since. Not sure what's going on the air gremlins are playing games with me.
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Old 11-23-2021, 10:21 PM   #14
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I don't think there should be any air leaking out of those PPVs. All they do is close when air bleeds down to whatever value they are set for. They shouldn't be doing anything that requires them to bleed air. I've got more than four on my coach, maybe three on both the front and rear tanks. Any air that isn't for braking has a PPV on the line, air horns, suspension, front step cover etc. Some have multiple lines on them, some only one. I think I've replaced all of them. My tanks bleed down first, then the suspension, It usually takes 3-4 days before the coach leans any appreciable amount.
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